Straps controversy

[stonerd7 44]

Straps controversy 

Everyone agree that this is a bit much?

[olddirty 158]

I dont think its a bit much.  Its the rules.  Having wrestlers walk around matches and tournaments topless makes the sport look bush league.  I go over it with all of my wrestlers and make damn sure every single one of them understands the straps rule and that they will face consequences if they are in a dual or tournament with their straps down, on or off the mat.

[Bob1974 0]

“I don’t care what the rulebook says."

 

Apparently, or he would have been more knowledgeable of the rules and his kids would have known not to do it.

[RichB 96]

So at today's Lehigh v Cornell match, during "halftime", Freddie Stroker walked, with his singlet entirely below nipples, maybe entirely below the rib-cage,  between the scores table and the mat center. Both officials were looking at the mat center. The officials did not hit him with a penalty, nor should have they. OK he had Ice on his shoulder, but the rules are the rules. I think he was looking to borrow a sling.   

[Jasonmitchell32 240]

I live right down the road from Red Land, one of my good friends is a coach there and I know the ref. Here is what I'm told by people who were there (I was not) - the two wrestlers walked through the line shaking hands with singlets up and then after everyone had shaken hands and they were all walking back to their respective sides, they pulled down their straps. At this point, parents from both teams were already matside to see their kids and everyone there thought it was over over and we're shocked when they saw the scuttlebutt at the scorer's table and heard that the ref penalized RL twice for the singlets.

I agree that you've got to enforce the rules, but at some point it's to much, right? The intent of this rule isn't for these situations. The dual meet us over, kids have shaken hands, parents are waiting to talk to the kids....

Keep in mind that this decision not only affects Hershey by putting them in the 8 spot for District team duals with a little over a week to go, but pushed back 2 other teams who were ahead of them and would have stayed ahead had Hershey lost - so there are 2 teams potentially negatively affected significantly.

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[oldcougar 44]

17 hours ago, RichB said:

So at today's Lehigh v Cornell match, during "halftime", Freddie Stroker walked, with his singlet entirely below nipples, maybe entirely below the rib-cage,  between the scores table and the mat center. Both officials were looking at the mat center. The officials did not hit him with a penalty, nor should have they. OK he had Ice on his shoulder, but the rules are the rules. I think he was looking to borrow a sling.   

In this case, the ref should not have hit Stoker, because he was off the mat. At the HS match, the meet was over, the two teams had shaken hands, and were walking off the mat when two wrestlers lowered their straps.  The rule says you can't do that while still 'on the mat'.  Following the rules is one thing.  Being reasonable about enforcing the rules is something entirely different.  Was the infraction these kids did so horrific that it should cost their teams the meet?  I'm guessing the ref was the only person in the gym who knew he could impose that penalty. And he proved that he was the man!  Pathetic.

[gimpeltf 741]

Just now, oldcougar said:

In this case, the ref should not have hit Stoker, because he was off the mat. At the HS match, the meet was over, the two teams had shaken hands, and were walking off the mat when two wrestlers lowered their straps.  The rule says you can't do that while still 'on the mat'.  Following the rules is one thing.  Being reasonable about enforcing the rules is something entirely different.  Was the infraction these kids did so horrific that it should cost their teams the meet?  I'm guessing the ref was the only person in the gym who knew he could impose that penalty. And he proved that he was the man!  Pathetic.

RichB said between the scorers table and the mat center- not the mat. At Grace/Leeman-Turner the edge of the mat protection area is right at the scorers table. I don't believe he was questioning the lack of call.

[Lipdrag 12]

On 1/13/2019 at 1:12 PM, oldcougar said:

In this case, the ref should not have hit Stoker, because he was off the mat. At the HS match, the meet was over, the two teams had shaken hands, and were walking off the mat when two wrestlers lowered their straps.  The rule says you can't do that while still 'on the mat'.  Following the rules is one thing.  Being reasonable about enforcing the rules is something entirely different.  Was the infraction these kids did so horrific that it should cost their teams the meet?  I'm guessing the ref was the only person in the gym who knew he could impose that penalty. And he proved that he was the man!  Pathetic.

Ref is a complete tool.  Much worse than the haircut guy of a couple weeks ago.  So, if the teams would have shaken hands between the head table and the mat but no ON the mat then no penalty.  Lesson learned for coaches of winning teams:  Have all of your wrestliers sit down, shut up, and turn their chairs around until after this tool of an official has signed the book.  Only then does anyone get up to shake hands.  Then insist that the hand shaking happen along the edge of the mat on the wood gym floor.  Even then you might not be safe from this guy.  He would conduct a post match skin check to retroactively med DQ one of your wrestlers.  Better wait until he leaves the gym.

[Jasonmitchell32 240]

Ok - just learned this tidbit of info today - apparently the Hershey (inital team that lost but then ended up winning) table person (each team gets a rep at the head table) was the one who pointed it out to the ref and would not let it go. The ref was kinda backed into a corner because it IS a rule and this guy was hammering the ref about it, so he apparently felt almost obligated to call it at that point.

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[RichB 96]

Jason, could not the ref decide to have only penalized one point?

 

Opinions of other local coaches

https://www.pennlive.com/highschoolsports/wrestling/2019/01/hershey-red-land-singlet-dispute-the-latest-in-wrestlings-complicated-relationship-with-its-own-rulebook.html

 

 

[1032004 180]

9 hours ago, RichB said:

Jason, could not the ref decide to have only penalized one point?

 

Opinions of other local coaches

https://www.pennlive.com/highschoolsports/wrestling/2019/01/hershey-red-land-singlet-dispute-the-latest-in-wrestlings-complicated-relationship-with-its-own-rulebook.html

 

 

This.  If it happened simultaneously seems kinda rough to penalize them twice for the same thing. 

[Jasonmitchell32 240]

 .

 

 

 

 

 

[Jasonmitchell32 240]

Jason, could not the ref decide to have only penalized one point?
 
Opinions of other local coaches
https://www.pennlive.com/highschoolsports/wrestling/2019/01/hershey-red-land-singlet-dispute-the-latest-in-wrestlings-complicated-relationship-with-its-own-rulebook.html
 
 

Yep, but the strict interpretation of the rule is 1 point for each kid in violation. Ditty is a really good ref - he was put in a very bad spot bc the Hershey table guy called it out repeatedly, so he seems to have felt backed into a corner on it.

Just last week I worked a table at the District III team duals and he was reffing - I gotta say, as soon as those matches ended, he made a beeline to the table and signed the books!

PS - that's our HS coach being quoted in that article. The guy who wrote it never told Heckard he was going to quote him

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[RichB 96]

Heckard doesn't like being quoted?????

[Jasonmitchell32 240]

Heckard doesn't like being quoted?????

Not what I said. He thought he was off the record because, well, the writer said as much.

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[TBar1977 2,471]

I think the rule is fine while the wrestlers are competing, but to enforce it after the match is ended seems over the top. 

[Zebra 444]

On 2/10/2019 at 10:41 AM, TBar1977 said:

I think the rule is fine while the wrestlers are competing, but to enforce it after the match is ended seems over the top. 

If I read all this correctly the match was not technically over as the official scorecard had not been signed even thought the wrestling portion of the match was complete.

[TBar1977 2,471]

11 minutes ago, Zebra said:

If I read all this correctly the match was not technically over as the official scorecard had not been signed even thought the wrestling portion of the match was complete.

That is how I read it as well. The wrestling was done. They were in the process of walking off the mat. Taking 2 points and altering the outcome for that seems ticky tack. So I guess I agree with the Cumberland Valley Coach. 

[Zebra 444]

19 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

That is how I read it as well. The wrestling was done. They were in the process of walking off the mat. Taking 2 points and altering the outcome for that seems ticky tack. So I guess I agree with the Cumberland Valley Coach. 

I understand all sides in these situations. I make no public judgment even thought I have private feelings about some of these situations.