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BigTenFanboy

Ryan Deakin

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1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I could use the PeeWee match my nephew wrestled in last week where he won 9-3 as a similar reference in terms of how dominant the win would be. 

What?  That means you're only 70% confident that Nolf could dominate a PeeWee wrestler.  I think you should up that percentage by 30 more points - even if the PeeWee is your nephew.

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47 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

YOU ARE A GENIUS. I DID NOT PUT HIDLAY ON THE SAME LEVEL AS 2009 JB.

If Nolf wasnt injured in 2018 the score wouldn't have bee 6-2 vs Hidlay.

I'm saying the MATCH. 6-2

HEALTHY 2019 Nolf would beat 2009 Burroughs in a similar fashion that INJURED Nolf beat 2018 Hidlay. Get it? Clearly you dont!

2009 Burroughs would pound on INJURED 2018 Nolf. Get it?

Theres a big difference between healthy 2019 Nolf and 2018 Injured Nolf.

That's not what you originally said. 

In any event, you still think the guy that beat Alec Pantaleo 6-4 would beat 2009 Jordan Burroughs by 4-5 points. Therefore, you deserve the ridicule that has come your way

Edited by DEFan79

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15 minutes ago, DEFan79 said:

That's not what you originally said. 

In any event, you still think the guy that beat Alec Pantaleo 6-4 would beat 2009 Jordan Burroughs by 4-5 points. Therefore, you deserve the ridicule that has come your way

Yes it is what I said. Mental capacity and lack of critical thinking skills is laughable. 

Yes I believe 2019 Jason Nolf - 2x NCAA Champ, 3x finalist in his 5th year with 3 career losses 1 by default would beat 2009 Jordan Burrough 1x NCAA Champ, 1x 3rd, 1x DNP in his 3rd year of college.

You clearly have no clue how to gage wrestling talent/ability, nor do you have to ability to separate future accomplishments.

If anything my opinion displays and lauds Burroughs tremendous leaps in improvement after 2009, but clearly you're not smart enough to understand that.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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4 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Yes it is what I said. Mental capacity and lack of critical thinking skills is laughable. 

Yes I believe 2019 Jason Nolf - 2x NCAA Champ, 3x finalist in his 5th year with 3 career losses 1 by default would beat 2009 Jordan Burrough 1x NCAA Champ, 1x 3rd, 2x DNP in his 3rd year of college.

You clearly have no clue how to gage wrestling talent/ability, nor do you have to ability to separate future accomplishments.

If anything my opinion displays and lauds Burroughs tremendous leaps in improvement after 2009, but clearly you're not smart enough to understand that.

Wait... Burroughs won a 2nd title after that, so 2 dnp, a 3rd, and 2 titles, what a cheater. 

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1 hour ago, TFBJR said:

So much good wrestling finally happening and everyone seems to be at each other's throats. 

Love one another. 

 

Unfortunately it doesn't appear many in this thread took heed to your advice.

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28 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Yes it is what I said. Mental capacity and lack of critical thinking skills is laughable. 

Yes I believe 2019 Jason Nolf - 2x NCAA Champ, 3x finalist in his 5th year with 3 career losses 1 by default would beat 2009 Jordan Burrough 1x NCAA Champ, 1x 3rd, 1x DNP in his 3rd year of college.

You clearly have no clue how to gage wrestling talent/ability, nor do you have to ability to separate future accomplishments.

If anything my opinion displays and lauds Burroughs tremendous leaps in improvement after 2009, but clearly you're not smart enough to understand that.

I think you're just being stubborn at this point. You made an off handed comment about the 157 pound champs of the last 20 years without realizing who those champs actually were and instead of admit your mistake you are doubling down! 

I'm curious if people would agree that this is one of the weakest weight classes this year, which is largely due to Nolf. Contrast that with the weight Burroughs won which was stacked.

Additionally, don't forget that Dake and Taylor also both won this weight. I don't think Nolf beats either one of them in the NCAA finals. Plus IMAR actually did beat Nolf at 157.

I don't think Nolf has seen the rate of improvement you imply but instead his weight classes have thinned. Same thing we saw with Rutherford. 

I could be wrong here but I also don't believe Nolf will experience the same level of success on the world stage as any of the former 157 ib champs I've mentioned. I don't think Nolf's style translates as well to freestyle as was shown last year when he tried to make a world team. I could see him potentially snagging one from Green at the non Olympic weight but not at one of the current Olympic weights. I highly doubt Nolf makes a world team this year or the Olympics next year. Burroughs did these things after his senior year with ease.

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The Deakin match was definitely odd. I think Deakin and his coaches were trying to see what Deakin could actually do in preparation for future matches at more important times like Big 10's and NCAA's. A turn would've put him in range and that is probable better than getting dominated on the feet. 

Also, I seem to be in the minority here but I think a couple of the stall calls were a little quick. Especially the one where Deakin released the leg before the 5 seconds and still got called for stalling. Deakin was certainly working hard the whole time.  

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22 minutes ago, Relentless125 said:

I think you're just being stubborn at this point. You made an off handed comment about the 157 pound champs of the last 20 years without realizing who those champs actually were and instead of admit your mistake you are doubling down! 

I'm curious if people would agree that this is one of the weakest weight classes this year, which is largely due to Nolf. Contrast that with the weight Burroughs won which was stacked.

Additionally, don't forget that Dake and Taylor also both won this weight. I don't think Nolf beats either one of them in the NCAA finals. Plus IMAR actually did beat Nolf at 157.

I don't think Nolf has seen the rate of improvement you imply but instead his weight classes have thinned. Same thing we saw with Rutherford. 

I could be wrong here but I also don't believe Nolf will experience the same level of success on the world stage as any of the former 157 ib champs I've mentioned. I don't think Nolf's style translates as well to freestyle as was shown last year when he tried to make a world team. I could see him potentially snagging one from Green at the non Olympic weight but not at one of the current Olympic weights. I highly doubt Nolf makes a world team this year or the Olympics next year. Burroughs did these things after his senior year with ease.

Taylor took 2nd at 157 as a freshman. Senior Nolf beats freshman Taylor and I know full well what I said and who the champs were. Yes I think Nolf beats all of them WHEN THEY WERE IN COLLEGE and the years they won it. You can't use their future accomplishments as reasons why he wouldn't because for those respective wrestlers they haven't happened yet. I also stated it was my opinion. You nor anyone has to agree with me and I encourage people to debate and discuss the topic. What I won't accept though is use later accomplishments as evidence because they did not happen yet. Burroughs accomplishments prior to 2009 are valid, anything after is invalid. Those accomplishments show how he improved not where he was at that moment in time unless you believe he did not improved and the world around him just got worse. 

Yes Imar beat Nolf in 2016, but do you think 2016 and 2019 Nolfs are the same? I think 2019 beats 2016 Nolf handily.

Is it fair for me to say that Burroughs now would beat both Molinaro and Metcalf now? Both of them beat him in the past.

If you feel that Nolf has not improved over the years and everyone around him just got weaker I would disagree. But hey that's my opinion.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Deakin isn't in the same wrestling universe as Nolf right now.

I would take Nolf over the best version of JB in college and perhaps even DT or Dake (although those matchups would be amazing).

The real question to me is how Nolf will possibly do against James Green and all other comes at 70 KG if and when he turns to freestyle full time.  One has to certainly appreciate his chances against anyone in the US at that weight, right?

 

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If you really think Nolf beats Burroughs at 165, then of course you think he’s the best in the US at 70 kg.  I think most reasonable  people would object to that premise though. Nolf will do well in freestyle domestically but it doesn’t appear to me that his style will lead to many world medals

Edited by ThorsteinV

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Deakin isn't in the same wrestling universe as Nolf right now.
I would take Nolf over the best version of JB in college and perhaps even DT or Dake (although those matchups would be amazing).
The real question to me is how Nolf will possibly do against James Green and all other comes at 70 KG if and when he turns to freestyle full time.  One has to certainly appreciate his chances against anyone in the US at that weight, right?
 
Wrong.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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Nolf just turned 23 the other day so he is presumably not even yet in his prime. 

He is a rare three time PA state champ and four time finalist (only one close loss in high school that was avenged). 

He will very likely be a rare three time NCAA champ and four time finalist (with only two true close losses to a two time NCAA champ and four time finalist; and one victor over him).

He has DT's creativity, motor, and technical ability. 

He has Dake's ferocity and confidence.   (He is perhaps only lacking Dake's world level defensive skills)

I would reasonably speculate his ceiling is still pretty high.

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6 minutes ago, ThorsteinV said:

If you really think Nolf beats Burroughs at 165, then of course you think he’s the best in the US at 70 kg.  I think most reasonable  people would object to that premise though. Nolf will do well in freestyle domestically but it doesn’t appear to me that his style will lead to many world medals

Why does it have to be at 165?  Both wrestled 157.  In any event, I bet a lot of folks didn't think DT's style and body were especially suited for freestyle either.  

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1 minute ago, ThorsteinV said:

You said the best version of Burroughs in college.. that was at 165

How dominant was Borroughs at 165 in college in terms of bonus-ing opponents?  Do you have the stats?  I'm curious (not making accusations).  It would be interesting to compare Dake, Taylor, Nolf, and perhaps others who are at or near this weight. 

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2 minutes ago, ThorsteinV said:

I know Burroughs faced better competition, like Andrew Howe, than Nolf will face this year. I do not have the stats but I think bonus points can be misleading at times; see Kyle Dake, for example. 

I don't think that Howe was better than IMar even if Nolf won't face him this year.  He faced him his freshman year though and pinned him first time out (barely losing the next two matches).

Edited by dmm53

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