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BigTenFanboy

Ryan Deakin

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3 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Yeah, we all know the argument. I get it that Taylor never beat Dake, but a lot of great young wrestlers have chosen Penn State in their bid to replicate Taylor's style and success. Nolf is one such wrestler. So we as fans find worth in more than just the Dake Taylor on the mat results.

And if this was a discussion on who you would rather have on your team to win an ncaa team title, then yes you have a point. But this is a convo about whether or not Nolf would dominate the 157 lb champs of the last 20 years. If Taylor couldnt beat Dake, I doubt Nolf is dominating him.

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3 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Nolf chose PSU specifically because Taylor went there?

There are probably a lot of reasons, but Nolf has stated that when he saw all the points Taylor was scoring he wanted to be that kind of wrestler.

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4 minutes ago, Molsen said:

And if this was a discussion on who you would rather have on your team to win an ncaa team title, then yes you have a point. But this is a convo about whether or not Nolf would dominate the 157 lb champs of the last 20 years. If Taylor couldnt beat Dake, I doubt Nolf is dominating him.

I was not part of that aspect of this thread and really have no interest in that hypothetical.

Edited by TBar1977

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15 minutes ago, Relentless125 said:

My mistake. I forgot Taylor moved up after his freshman year. But you can go ahead and replace him with Dieringer, TJ Williams, or Jordan Leen as other guys Nolf would not dominate.

You're making up rules now in addition from changing from saying "dominate" to "beat." If we can't look at what they did in the past or future what are we looking at? How Nolf handily beat a zero time AA yesterday and that suddenly means he'd be able to dominate Jordan Burroughs? I believe future accomplishments are the best way to determine how good someone really is. Especially when they don't have adequate competition to test them at NCAA's like Nolf this year. 

I'm not making up rules as I go along. You can use all the accomplishments from his past leading up to the moment of comparison. You cant give credit to someone for something they have not yet achieved. That's like saying freshman year Jordan Burroughs would beat 2018 Zain Retherford because he eventually will go on to win Olympic gold. I personally believe 2019's Nolf would handle Jordan Burroughs during his junior year. That does not mean i think Nolf is better than Burroughs now. Its means I think Nolf now is better than Burrough when he was junior. Jordan Burroughs jumped a level or two after his junior year. He jumped another few levels after graduating. Coming out of high school as a 1x NJ state champion I dont think anyone expected him to go on to be in the conversation of being the goat. Heck he even said that pretty much no one recruited him. And yes, I think Nolf would beat the junior year version of him by a solid 4-5 points.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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3 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I'm not making up rules as I go along. You can use all the accomplishments from his past leading up to the moment of comparison. You cant give credit to someone for something they have not yet achieved. That's like saying freshman year Jordan Burroughs would beat 2018 Zain Retherford because he eventually will go on to win Olympic gold. I personally believe 2019's Nolf would handle Jordan Burroughs during his junior year. That does not mean i think Nolf is better than Burroughs now. Its means I think Nolf now is better than Burrough when he was junior. Jordan Burroughs jumped a level or two after his junior year. He jumped another few levels after graduating. Coming out of high school as a 1x NJ state champion I dont think anyone expected him to go on to be in the conversation of being the goat. Heck he even said that pretty much no one recruited him.

Did he enroll at Nebraska and just show up at open tryouts?

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If you are a young wrestler who wants to score a LOT in college, if you want to wrestle like David Taylor and Jason Nolf, and the way Cael Sanderson wrestled, you should obviously consider Penn State. You could be the next in line.

Edited by TBar1977

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Just now, TBar1977 said:

If you are a young wrestler who wants to score a LOT in college, if you want to wrestle like David Taylor and Jason Nolf, and the way Carl Sanderson wrestled, you should obviously consider Penn State. You could be the next in line.

You mean if you are a top 100 recruit and want to score a lot of points, you should consider PSU?

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

I dont remember exactly how it went, but he talks about it in the flo film My Name Is Jordan. He said how he finally won a state title and says "Nobody wanted me."

Pretty crazy he ended up starting as a freshman at a Big Ten school, considering no one wanted him!

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8 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Pretty crazy he ended up starting as a freshman at a Big Ten school, considering no one wanted him!

https://www.flowrestling.org/films?playing=5623629

Go to about 13 min in.

At 15 min he talks about how he won a state title his senior year and still no one recruited him and how most schools already used up their scholarship money. He then made it to the finals of senior nationals and people started recognizing he was good. Nebraska became interested and he signed within a few days, but to no real fanfare.

If you have a flo account that is.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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10 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

If you are a young wrestler who wants to score a LOT in college, if you want to wrestle like David Taylor and Jason Nolf, and the way Carl Sanderson wrestled, you should obviously consider Penn State. You could be the next in line.

Fortunately if you want to win world medals, your college choice isn’t so obvious and you have a bit of flexibility in the places you should consider 

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But Burroughs dominates a past ncaa champion, wins a decisive 5-1 over a multiple time high placer, has another ncaa champion in his weight, and that year is not enough evidence that he would be competitive with Nolf? Their weight classes are completely different monsters and Burroughs was still dominant.

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9 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

https://www.flowrestling.org/films?playing=5623629

Go to about 13 min in.

At 15 min he talks about how he won a state title his senior year and still no one recruited him and how most schools already used up their scholarship money. He then made it to the finals of senior nationals and people started recognizing he was good. Nebraska became interested and he signed within a few days, but to no real fanfare.

If you have a flo account that is.

Ok, I get what you are saying now.  He was recruited based off his national results and not his high school results.

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2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Ok, I get what you are saying now.  He was recruited based off his national results and not his high school results.

http://www.wrestlingusa.com/high-school/ewExternalFiles/2005-06 Best Seniors.pdf

Here's the national rankings from his senior year. He was ranked 10th at 135lbs.

From the way he talks in the flo film, it sounds like Nebraska was his only serious offer. He was concerned due to how far from home it was as well, but his mother urged him to sign the NLI.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

http://www.wrestlingusa.com/high-school/ewExternalFiles/2005-06 Best Seniors.pdf

Here's the national rankings from his senior year. He was ranked 10th at 135lbs.

From the way he talks in the flo film, it sounds like Nebraska was his only serious offer. He was concerned due to how far from home it was as well, but his mother urged him to sign the NLI.

It’s interesting that he would consider an offer from Nebraska as “no one”, but I guess if you are from NJ, Nebraska might as well be in Siberia.

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7 minutes ago, Molsen said:

But Burroughs dominates a past ncaa champion, wins a decisive 5-1 over a multiple time high placer, has another ncaa champion in his weight, and that year is not enough evidence that he would be competitive with Nolf? Their weight classes are completely different monsters and Burroughs was still dominant.

Yea I think Nolf would handle both Leen and Poeta from 2009.

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

http://www.wrestlingusa.com/high-school/ewExternalFiles/2005-06 Best Seniors.pdf

Here's the national rankings from his senior year. He was ranked 10th at 135lbs.

From the way he talks in the flo film, it sounds like Nebraska was his only serious offer. He was concerned due to how far from home it was as well, but his mother urged him to sign the NLI.

So he jumped levels from his junior year to his senior year of high school. Just like he did from his freshman dnp to his sophomore 3rd place. And from his sophomore 3rd place, to dominate 1st place with previous ncaa champs in his weight. Got it.

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6 minutes ago, Molsen said:

But Burroughs dominates a past ncaa champion, wins a decisive 5-1 over a multiple time high placer, has another ncaa champion in his weight, and that year is not enough evidence that he would be competitive with Nolf? Their weight classes are completely different monsters and Burroughs was still dominant.

Right, who has Nolf beat in the last two seasons?  Lavallee and Hidlay? Both extremely weak weight classes.  Of course he is excellent but he has not faced tough competition. 

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Just now, jchapman said:

It’s interesting that he would consider an offer from Nebraska as “no one”, but I guess if you are from NJ, Nebraska might as well be in Siberia.

I think he ment up until Nebraska came knocking no one wanted him. And Nebraska came knocking pretty late.

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2 minutes ago, ThorsteinV said:

Right, who has Nolf beat in the last two seasons?  Lavallee and Hidlay? Both extremely weak weight classes.  Of course he is excellent but he has not faced tough competition. 

Who has he beat? Everyone he wrestled. This is where someone usually points out Van Brill. 

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2 minutes ago, Molsen said:

So he jumped levels from his junior year to his senior year of high school. Just like he did from his freshman dnp to his sophomore 3rd place. And from his sophomore 3rd place, to dominate 1st place with previous ncaa champs in his weight. Got it.

Yes he jump levels every year. It's pretty obvious that he did, which is why his Olympic and World title from AFTER college hold no bearing on his good he was as a junior.

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Burroughs actually dominated a very tough field. Outside of Nolfs win against Imar, which he would lose the next two times, who has he dominated that would suggest that he would dominate Burroughs, Dake, or any of the other 157 lbers. Seriously? Nolf had close matches last year to guys not even remotely on that level.

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6 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Yes he jump levels every year. It's pretty obvious that he did, which is why his Olympic and World title from AFTER college hold no bearing on his good he was as a junior.

Yes, but his dominant win over a previous ncaa champ and others in that weight show how good he was as a junior.

Edited by Molsen

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

Who has he beat? Everyone he wrestled. This is where someone usually points out Van Brill. 

C'mon, I was replying to a post about Burroughs winning titles with other NCAA champions in it. You simply cannot say the same about Nolf (at this point anyway).

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