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BigTenFanboy

Ryan Deakin

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4 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Well, with very little free style experience he has 2x come very, very close to beating Green and this after his Soph. year. I would say he is closer than you think.

We must've watched a different match against Green last time.. yes, he did come back towards the end but it wasn't really a close match.  That all is part of my point that his style doesn't transition well to the international scene.  

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7 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

The international scene was never part of this argument/discussion.

As for beating other NCAA champs, it's kinda hard to do that when the champs above and below you dont change weight classes and are also your teammates. And the top level wrestlers he beat are the AA's that finished below him during his freshman, sophomore and junior seasons.

It has been to a few of us for awhile.  Obviously the discussion has migrated a bit from Ryan Deakin 

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1 minute ago, Ts40 said:

I think he beats them all. I said nothing about dominating. Who would u pick over him?  

Bigtenfan said dominate. I even said that thinking he could beat them was reasonable. Honestly I would love to see him wrestle any of those guys and have no clue who would win. Someone should invent a time machine and make it happen.

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3 minutes ago, ThorsteinV said:

We must've watched a different match against Green last time.. yes, he did come back towards the end but it wasn't really a close match.  That all is part of my point that his style doesn't transition well to the international scene.  

1. We'll see about that.

2. Won't have any bearing on his folkstyle success and influence.

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Just now, ThorsteinV said:

It has been to a few of us for awhile.  Obviously the discussion has migrated a bit from Ryan Deakin 

What exactly does Jordan Burroughs international career or Nolf's freestyle potential have to do with a match between 2019 Nolf and 2009 JB (who at that point really didnt accomplish anything in freestyle yet). And yes it has. RYAN DEAKIN RIDING OUT NOLF INSPITE OF STALLING AND LOCKING HANDS WAS IMPRESSIVE.

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2 minutes ago, ThorsteinV said:

It has been to a few of us for awhile.  Obviously the discussion has migrated a bit from Ryan Deakin 

Deakin did ride Nolf out for a period. I wonder how Dake would fair on top. 

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4 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

1. We'll see about that.

2. Won't have any bearing on his folkstyle success and influence.

I see kids all over the country lining up their ankle bands after wins...huge influence!

Edited by Chrissn2001

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Wasnt throwing shade. Was combating the whole "but he was stalling and locked hands" comments that would follow.

Let tbar throw the shade then. Like he already did. Everyone knows he struggles to give props to anyone that has been suggested as competition for the psu greats. No need to insert the stalling and locked hands yourself everytime you say its impressive. 

Edited by Molsen

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7 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

What exactly does Jordan Burroughs international career or Nolf's freestyle potential have to do with a match between 2019 Nolf and 2009 JB (who at that point really didnt accomplish anything in freestyle yet). And yes it has. RYAN DEAKIN RIDING OUT NOLF INSPITE OF STALLING AND LOCKING HANDS WAS IMPRESSIVE.

Well there are weak NCAA weight classes from year to year and world titles are a good way to validate or differentiate them.  It is difficult to compare 2019 Nolf vs 2009 Burroughs but if in 2030, Burroughs has 10 world medals and Nolf has zero, that equips us with more information from which decide who would win in the hypothetical match

Edited by ThorsteinV

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Just now, Molsen said:

Let tbar throw the shade then. Like he already did. Everyone knows he struggles to give props to anyone that has been suggested as competition for the psu greats.

Hey man.. that's my other username you're talking about because he and I are one and same person you know.

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1 minute ago, ThorsteinV said:

Well there are weak NCAA weight classes from year to year and world titles are a good way to validate or differentiate them.  It is difficult to compare 2019 Nolf vs 2009 Burroughs but if in 2030, Burroughs has 10 world medals and Nolf has zero, that equips us with more information from which decide who would win in the hypothetical match

It really doesnt though because those 10 world medals dont display how good Burroughs was in 2009. It shows how much not yet realized potential 2009 Burroughs had.

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5 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

It really doesnt though because those 10 world medals dont display how good Burroughs was in 2009. It shows how much not yet realized potential 2009 Burroughs had.

I don't think that's how most people evaluate history - they don't throw away information like that. 

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9 minutes ago, ThorsteinV said:

I don't think that's how most people evaluate history - they don't throw away information like that. 

So you're saying you would assess how good Burroughs was in 2009 based on want he did in 2011 and beyond?

That's not how things work. Burroughs had not yet improved to the level of best in the world.

Would it be ridiculous if I said I think JoJo Aragona from NJ, the number 1 ranked 138lber high schooler in the country right now would beat Jordan Burroughs in his senior year of high school? Or would Burroughs beat him because 5 years later Burroughs is going to win a world title? Me saying Nolf would win is no different.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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43 minutes ago, Ts40 said:

When u say he has a teammate who has bonused everyone this year in an attempt to somehow discredit him u shine a neon light on just how good he is. Please try to do better.  

When it is not clear that he is the most dominant wrestler on his own team this year, it is a reach to say he is the most dominant ever. 

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2011 Burroughs was coming off of a season ending injury in 2010.  So maybe he made a pretty big jump in 2009, allowing him to come back from injury and still be dominant. And 2009 Burroughs was every bit as dominant as 2011 Burroughs at the ncaas. So maybe you arent giving enough credit to 2009 Burroughs.

Edited by Molsen

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7 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

So you're saying you would assess how good Burroughs was in 2009 based on want he did in 2011 and beyond?

That's not how things work. Burroughs had not yet improved to the level of best in the world.

Would it be ridiculous if I said I think JoJo Aragona from NJ, the number 1 ranked 138lber high schooler in the country right now would beat Jordan Burroughs in his senior year of high school? Or would Burroughs beat him because 5 years later Burroughs is going to win a world title? Me saying Nolf would win is no different.

I'm saying that if you are going to compare two wrestlers from different time periods, you will use all useful information, even if some of that information is accumulated later.  

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1 minute ago, Molsen said:

2011 Burroughs was coming off of a season ending injury in 2010. And 2009 Burroughs was every bit as dominant as 2011 Burroughs at the ncaas. So maybe you arent giving enough credit to 2009 Burroughs.

Burroughs was more dominant and much better in 2011 than he was in 2009. 2009 JB was not at the level of winning a world title. 2011 JB was.

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Just now, ThorsteinV said:

I'm saying that if you are going to compare two wrestlers from different time periods, you will use all useful information, even if some of that information is accumulated later.  

And I'm saying when comparing a wrestler from a specific year you can only use information up until the year of comparison because later results account for improvement that has not yet taken place.

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My 6 year old son is a pretty good wrestler who has won a handful of match this season in his first year of wrestling. I think he would beat Brandon Slay when he was 6 years old. Slay was 1-22 and his only win was a forfeit that year. Is it ridiculous for me to make that kind of prediction because later in life Slay would go on to win the Olympics?

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