Minnesota vs Iowa

[wrestlingphish 1,011]

55 minutes ago, dougb said:

Looks like Stoll decided to be a COWARD AGAIN,  I am surprised Brands Recruits Wrestlers who puss out when they Wrestle someone they might lose to,  These ARE NOT Gable's Wrestlers.  It is better to battle and lose than to just be a coward.  I know Stoll and Brands would disagree.

If you're going to drink and post at least take some shots at other posters to really get it going.

[MSU158 1,978]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Lugo wins 13-0. Iowa wins 24-10.

Ironically, Iowa looked great EXCEPT for Spencer Lee.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

Russell is no joke and having Sanders in his corner has definitely cleaned up his wrestling. 

No matter who the guy is, it is unfair to base expectations off of one NCAA tournament.  The DI season is a grind and, like Lee just said, we don't even know what these guys are wrestling through. If you beat an AA 3-0, you still look pretty good to me. 

[Gantry 1,872]

Stop, Lee didn't look good.  At all.   Lee teched him in like 5 minutes last year.  You have to compare Spencer Lee to Spencer Lee, small victories over AAs he teched last year don't count as good wins. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Gantry

[rhodge00 7]

We all know that Lizak doesn't do well with duals due to weigh-in rules. Take for example last year then Nato tech him in the dual. But at NCAA for 3rd place it was a dog fight. It will be a different story at Big Tens and Nationals.. But I am not trying to take anything away from the DeSanto, I think Iowa is the perfect choice for him. It will be interested what happens at Big Tens and Nationals.

[VakAttack 3,963]

Wow, some background on the Desanto-Lizak match that I had forgotten about.  At least now I know why he chose bottom for no reason, lol.  Does anybody know how to embed a Tweet on these forums?

https://twitter.com/ethanlizak/status/1025609668851326977

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by VakAttack

[Gantry 1,872]

4 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Wow, some background on the Desanto-Lizak match that I had forgotten about:

https://twitter.com/ethanlizak/status/1025609668851326977

For some reason I remember that being determined to be a fake account, no?

[MSU158 1,978]

59 minutes ago, dougb said:

Looks like Stoll decided to be a COWARD AGAIN,  I am surprised Brands Recruits Wrestlers who puss out when they Wrestle someone they might lose to,  These ARE NOT Gable's Wrestlers.  It is better to battle and lose than to just be a coward.  I know Stoll and Brands would disagree.

Such an unbelievably ignorant comment. The kid had already lost 2 out of 3 post seasons due to injury. Gable wrestlers would risk the 3rd unnecessarily for whiny guys like you?

Take away your bias and use common sense. If you do even wrestle him, you put him in situations where he can win going 80% or less and be extremely confident that he can avoid positions that would increase risk of re-injury. 

It is NOT about seed/ranking protection. I can guarantee the Coaches would be happy with a 12 seed at NCAA's as long as he makes it there in the best physical condition possible. 

[VakAttack 3,963]

Just now, Gantry said:

For some reason I remember that being determined to be a fake account, no?

Was it?  Son of a....

[Gantry 1,872]

I could be wrong here though, not 100% - but I bet fake or not Desantos choice and words were probably inspired by it.

[MSU158 1,978]

9 minutes ago, Gantry said:

Stop, Lee didn't look good.  At all.   Lee teched him in like 5 minutes last year.  You have to compare Spencer Lee to Spencer Lee, small victories over AAs he teched last year don't count as good wins. 

And Russell couldn't have improved or learned how to avoid being turned?

Again, expectations are too high. When you don't give up a takedown or an escape or ANY points to an AA, I refuse to knock you for how you wrestled. 

[Perry 1,423]

I am no fan of Desanto but you have to give him and the Iowa staff credit, he is phenomenally improved on bottom compared to last year. I imagine working out with Lee every day will help with that.

[Plasmodium 2,214]

Wrong thread 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Plasmodium

[VakAttack 3,963]

3 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

And Russell couldn't have improved or learned how to avoid being turned?

Again, expectations are too high. When you don't give up a takedown or an escape or ANY points to an AA, I refuse to knock you for how you wrestled. 

Of course he's being held to a higher standard.  He's supposed to be.  This is the second straight match he hasn't touched a leg thru his own initiative.  Russell was on his legs way more, even though he was never close to scoring.  Lee also scored no back points for the second straight match.

[russelscout 1,573]

3 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

And Russell couldn't have improved or learned how to avoid being turned?

Maybe, but I'm not as surprised by the mat wrestling as I am by Lee's complete inability to get to the legs the last few matches.

[TobusRex 2,107]

2 minutes ago, Perry said:

I am no fan of Desanto but you have to give him and the Iowa staff credit, he is phenomenally improved on bottom compared to last year. I imagine working out with Lee every day will help with that.

I bet it would :D

[Gantry 1,872]

3 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

And Russell couldn't have improved or learned how to avoid being turned? 

Again, expectations are too high. When you don't give up a takedown or an escape or ANY points to an AA, I refuse to knock you for how you wrestled.  

I didn't say Russell couldn't have improved.  I also didn't say you had to knock Spencer Lee.  You said Spencer Lee looked "pretty good" in that match, which I completely disagree with.  But I'm not going to go down TheMat rabbit hole and tit-for-tat ad nauseam.  I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that...

[MSU158 1,978]

1 minute ago, russelscout said:

Maybe, but I'm not as surprised by the mat wrestling as I am by Lee's complete inability to get to the legs the last few matches.

His opponents are tying up with him nearly as much and are keeping their hips back when they do. Since a vast majority of Lee's offense comes off inside ties and counter offense, if guys stay away from those ties and don't take desperation shot attempts, his offense can be limited. 

Aa good as Lee is, he hasn't shown the speed and level changes from space to really expect much offense from him there. He needs to find ways to close the space and get to his ties when his opponents try to dictate neutral positions. 

[MSU158 1,978]

16 minutes ago, Gantry said:

I didn't say Russell couldn't have improved.  I also didn't say you had to knock Spencer Lee.  You said Spencer Lee looked "pretty good" in that match, which I completely disagree with.  But I'm not going to go down TheMat rabbit hole and tit-for-tat ad nauseam.  I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that...

I respect that, I just think he and most greats of any sport, have performances judged based mainly on nearly unrealistic expectations. 

When Drew Bree's wins and goes 20-30 for 250yds, 2 tds and 1 INT against a top 7 defense, many will call it an off game because they expect over 300 yds and 3 tds.   But, compared to nearly every other qb that went against them his stats are better and most lost. 

Simply put, because he is Spencer Lee and dominated his way to a title last year, everyone expects him to even dominate AA's and, imho, judge a 3-0 win too harshly when the opponent had a smart game plan and did a lot to minimize Lee's offense. 

[BigTenFanboy 1,790]

1 minute ago, MSU158 said:

I respect that, I just think he and most greats of any sport, have performances judged based mainly on nearly unrealistic expectations. 

When Drew Bree's wins and goes 20-30 for 250yds, 2 tds and 1 INT against a top 7 defense, many will call it an off game because they expect over 300 yds and 3 tds.   But, compared to nearly every other qb that went against them his stats are better and most lost. 

Simply put, because he is Spencer Lee and dominated his way to a title last year, everyone expects him to even dominate AA's and, imho, judge a 3-0 win too harshly when the opponent had a smart game plan and did a lot to minimize Lee's offense. 

I think it's more the fact that he teched him previously (setting the precedent) and this time was a 3-0 win. Had Lee been called for stalling and Russle scored a takedown late in the 3rd the match could have gone to overtime.

[MSU158 1,978]

6 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I think it's more the fact that he teched him previously (setting the precedent) and this time was a 3-0 win. Had Lee been called for stalling and Russle scored a takedown late in the 3rd the match could have gone to overtime.

Lee teched him because he turned him at will.  Russell adjusted and hand fought a million times better on bottom and also made huge adjustments in neutral. Still all those adjustments did was slow down the pace and keep it somewhat close. He still didn't come close to escaping or really generating points of any kind. 

My real point is that the blueprint has been laid out for how to wrestle Lee going forward.  That isn't to say Lee won't keep winning, but scoring in bunches against the better guys may prove a lot harder if they can protect their wrists on bottom and wrestle from space in neutral. 

[BigTenFanboy 1,790]

9 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Lee teched him because he turned him at will.  Russell adjusted and hand fought a million times better on bottom and also made huge adjustments in neutral. Still all those adjustments did was slow down the pace and keep it somewhat close. He still didn't come close to escaping or really generating points of any kind. 

My real point is that the blueprint has been laid out for how to wrestle Lee going forward.  That isn't to say Lee won't keep winning, but scoring in bunches against the better guys may prove a lot harder if they can protect their wrists on bottom and wrestle from space in neutral. 

Which lays out a nice blueprint for Lee to work on. Work on getting the wrists better and improve on wrestling/defending from space.

[Gantry 1,872]

Did Russell get any stall calls from bottom in the first?  Because he definitely deserved a couple...

[wrestlingnerd 2,996]

MSU, I’m sure nobody would gripe about how bad Lee looked (he really did) had this been an isolated 3-0 win. It was not. Since contracting the flu at Midlands, he has wrestled like he really did have a severe case of the flu. Lee has been one of the most scouted wrestlers in the country for the majority of his career, so it’s not like people just discovered that he ties up and tilts a lot. 

Something is not right. 

[TobusRex 2,107]

2 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

MSU, I’m sure nobody would gripe about how bad Lee looked (he really did) had this been an isolated 3-0 win. It was not. Since contracting the flu at Midlands, he has wrestled like he really did have a severe case of the flu. Lee has been one of the most scouted wrestlers in the country for the majority of his career, so it’s not like people just discovered that he ties up and tilts a lot. 

Something is not right. 

I was wondering what happened to Lee at Midlands!  Didn't hear he caught the flu until just now. I'm surprised he wrestled, seems irresponsible to make a sick wrestler wrestle, would expose other wrestlers to the flu.

Maybe he's having a slight crisis of confidence now, in addition to maybe not being fully recovered from the flu?

[wrestlingnerd 2,996]

Tobus, I was joking. I have no idea what’s been going on. He looks worse this year, that’s all I’m confident in. You must’ve not read the dozens of threads claiming flu in jest. I was just playing along....