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2 hours ago, Bryan said:

I know but my point is that we are beginning to have conduct issues in wrestling

Or have we always had these issues and the Internet is just magnifying it now?  I mean we have stories about Gene Mills pulling out guys beard hair during a match... I'm thinking there have been excessive celebrations and after match shoves for decades but message boards now give anyone the ability to start a thread to express their outrage, which then leads to TheMat.com/HR/BWI/etc rabbit hole. 

Not saying I approve or disapprove of a lot of these, but I don't think it is a newfound systemic issue.  It's an intense sport with overly pumped up competitors, this stuff will happen and should be reigned in  if it goes too far.  Still, it isn't new...

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Gantry, I am inclined to agree with you.

 

Dave Schultz is rightfully glorified as wrestling royalty... however I wonder how many threads would be started about him and his brother's tactics had their been message boards then? Would they still be heroes? Or would they be vilified for crossing the line?

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9 minutes ago, Gantry said:

Or have we always had these issues and the Internet is just magnifying it now?  I mean we have stories about Gene Mills pulling out guys beard hair during a match... I'm thinking there have been excessive celebrations and after match shoves for decades but message boards now give anyone the ability to start a thread to express their outrage, which then leads to TheMat.com/HR/BWI/etc rabbit hole. 

Not saying I approve or disapprove of a lot of these, but I don't think it is a newfound systemic issue.  It's an intense sport with overly pumped up competitors, this stuff will happen and should be reigned in  if it goes too far.  Still, it isn't new...

^ this can't be stated enough...

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12 minutes ago, Gantry said:

Or have we always had these issues and the Internet is just magnifying it now?  I mean we have stories about Gene Mills pulling out guys beard hair during a match... I'm thinking there have been excessive celebrations and after match shoves for decades but message boards now give anyone the ability to start a thread to express their outrage, which then leads to TheMat.com/HR/BWI/etc rabbit hole. 

Not saying I approve or disapprove of a lot of these, but I don't think it is a newfound systemic issue.  It's an intense sport with overly pumped up competitors, this stuff will happen and should be reigned in  if it goes too far.  Still, it isn't new...

No, I'm pretty sure this was invented by Tom and Terry Brands.

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3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I agree he didn’t need to do that considering he was supposed to win, but I think mocking something the other team does could be considered “playing with the crowd” 

Home match - he did it straight at the OSU bench. 

 

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1 hour ago, Gantry said:

Or have we always had these issues and the Internet is just magnifying it now?  I mean we have stories about Gene Mills pulling out guys beard hair during a match... I'm thinking there have been excessive celebrations and after match shoves for decades but message boards now give anyone the ability to start a thread to express their outrage, which then leads to TheMat.com/HR/BWI/etc rabbit hole. 

Not saying I approve or disapprove of a lot of these, but I don't think it is a newfound systemic issue.  It's an intense sport with overly pumped up competitors, this stuff will happen and should be reigned in  if it goes too far.  Still, it isn't new...

If Gene Millis did pull out someone's beard it must have happened in international wrestling because while someone was allowed to have a mustache back in the day it had to stop at the bottom of the lip and full beards were not permitted.  

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4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

 

What do you mean "the way" he face mushed?   The face mush looked to be before the whistle so I don't really have a problem with that.   Throat slash and spitting gesture not cool though.

The match was over.  It was like 6-1 and there were two seconds left.  Lizak wasn't trying to do anything because time was expiring and DeSanto decided to go full spaz as time expired.  DeSanto completely out classed Lizak in the match.  It would have served him far better to simply take the 6-1 win (or whatever it was) without the spazoid face mush in the final second for no reason.  The idea of winning with grace seems to be lost on the kid.  

Edited by StallWarning

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3 hours ago, VakAttack said:

We could definitely use more badasses like Bo Nickal.  I think he might be the best collegiate wrestler this year, even better than Nolf.  He just happened to sound like a dork (to me) during that speech.  I fully defend anybody's right to celebrate while reserving the right to mock the execution of the celebration.

He is a dork.  He wears old man, all white, 90's era New Balance sneakers and a fanny pack.

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11 minutes ago, StallWarning said:

The match was over.  It was like 6-1 and there were two seconds left.  Lizak wasn't trying to do anything because time was expiring and DeSanto decided to go full spaz as time expired.  DeSanto completely out classed Lizak in the match.  It would have served him far better to simply take the 6-1 win (or whatever it was) without the spazoid face mush in the final second for no reason.  The idea of winning with grace seems to be lost on the kid.  

Eh I see face mushes all the time, don’t think his was much if any different than most. 

In order of cringeworthiness:

Spitting/fake spitting

 

throat slash

 

 

handshake or lack thereof

 

Trash talking

 

 

face mush 

 

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Where does Trenge fit in with these examples?  As I recall, he had eye injuries (detached retinas?) and was advised to never wrestle again.  Instead, he wore goggles, and threw hands whenever they got bumped or moved.  Eventually guys started messing with the goggles on purpose to get in his head.  Eventually he overcame his anger issues to finish out his colley career.

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3 hours ago, Chitown said:

Asking the crowd to cheer with the ear or to be silent, while douche-bag-ish, but have no problem with it. Playing with the crowd with out offending is easy. 

but showing up your opponent directly like head mushing the guy's head as you get off of him, doing the Brands-rednecking out of bounds that they used to do, or taunting the guy while shaking hands is stupid.

 

I'm with you there. I'm fine with pretty much anything a wrestler does that plays to the crowd as long as they aren't directed at their opponent and they get back to the line and shake hands. It's the same way I feel about celebration penalties in football.  Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't delay the game or directly taunt the other team. I consider that totally distinct from head smooshes or other after the whistle action. 

Basically, ask your home crowd to yell?  Go for it. Shoosh a hostile crowd? Also go for it. Throat slash? Stand over your opponent and flex?  Smoosh their head after the bell? You just look like a jackass. Same for anything after the whistle or out of bounds, etc. Regardless of anything else that's just asking for a fight to break out.

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2 hours ago, jchapman said:

Where does Trenge fit in with these examples?  As I recall, he had eye injuries (detached retinas?) and was advised to never wrestle again.  Instead, he wore goggles, and threw hands whenever they got bumped or moved.  Eventually guys started messing with the goggles on purpose to get in his head.  Eventually he overcame his anger issues to finish out his colley career.

Toward the end, Trenge basically expected opponents to not touch his head/face because of his goggles. 

I’ve talked with refs who said when a guy would legally tie-up with him, touch or pull his head, Trenge would keep looking at the ref as if to say, “Aren’t you going to do something about this?” 

They didnt. 

Because his opponents weren’t doing anything illegal or unsportsmanlike, and the refs weren’t about to give Trenge special treatement  

The refs were all very much on the alert when they reffed Trenge after he launched that kid WWE-style. That was one of the worst acts of flagrantly illegal/unsportsmanlike behavior I’ve ever seen from a wrestler, maybe the worst.

Coach Strobel was able to get Trenge under control, but I think even many Lehigh fans wrote him off after that sad episode. 

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3 hours ago, StallWarning said:

The match was over.  It was like 6-1 and there were two seconds left.  Lizak wasn't trying to do anything because time was expiring and DeSanto decided to go full spaz as time expired.  DeSanto completely out classed Lizak in the match.  It would have served him far better to simply take the 6-1 win (or whatever it was) without the spazoid face mush in the final second for no reason.  The idea of winning with grace seems to be lost on the kid.  

DeSanto wrestled great against Lizak.

But all folks will likely remember is his antics in the final few seconds and during the handshake. 

This cost him much more than a team point, though he doesn’t realize it right now. 

His actions at last year’s NCAAs, and subsequent actions are creating a persona that will eventually put him at a disadvantage just about every time he wrestles. 

Refs will be looking very closely at him and won’t be giving him any benefit of the doubt. 

This is nothing new, and is exactly what happened to other wrestlers who decided to flaunt the rules or act poorly. 

The East Lansing Strangler was one that comes to mind. 

Didnt work out well for him and his punkish behavior got him in trouble later on as a coach/grad assistant. 

I’m typically very supportive of wrestlers and often cringe when I see some of the cheap shots people take at them here simply because they lose a match of don’t do as well as fans expected. 

That said, I hold nothing back when it comes to dirty wrestlers or those who feel the need to bring WWE and UFC antics into our sport. 

And have no doubt this, DI coaches are reading these threads and some will reflect upon them and take the appropriate action. 

 

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