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Bronco

Rating the PAC 12 (or PAC 5 in wrestling)

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125 lbs

1. OREGON STATE _ Ronnie Bresser - RS Senior

2. ARIZONA STATE - Ryan Milhof - RS Senior OR Brandon Courtney - RS Freshman

3. STANFORD - Gabe Townsell - Junior

4. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Alex Hernandez-Figuero - RS Sophomore OR Eddie Flores - True Freshman

5. CAL POLY - Benny Martinez - True Freshman

133 lbs

1. ARIZONA STATE - Josiah Kline - Sophomore

2. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Sean Nickell - RS Senior

3. STANFORD - Mason Pengilly - RS Senior

4. OREGON STATE - Kegan Calkins - RS Senior

5. CAL POLY - Yo****o Funakoshi - Senior

141 lbs

1. STANFORD - Dalton Young - RS Freshman

2. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Carlos Herrera - RS Junior

3. ARIZONA STATE - Cory Crooks - RS Sophomore

4. OREGON STATE - Grant Willits - RS Freshman

5. CAL POLY - Rayn Farina - Sophomore OR Wyatt Cornelison - RS Freshman

149 lbs

1. ARIZONA STATE - Josh Maruca - RS Junior

2. STANFORD - Requir van der Merwe - RS Sophomore

3. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Russell Rohlfing - RS Junior

4. OREGON STATE - Josh Reyes - Senior

5. CAL POLY - Ty Schilling - Junior

157 lbs

1. ARIZONA STATE - Christian Padgilao - Graduate Student

2. OREGON STATE - Hunter Willits - Sophomore

3. STANFORD - Dominick Mandarino - Sophomore OR Paul Fox - RS Senior

4. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Wyatt Gerl - Junior OR Josn Annis - RS Junior

5. CAL POLY - Joshy Cortez - Senior OR Brawley Lamer - RS Freshman

165 lbs

1. ARIZONA STATE - Josh Shields - RS Junior

2. STANFORD - Brandon Dallavia - RS Sophomore OR Paul Fox - RS Senior

3. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Jacob Thalin - RS Junior

4. OREGON STATE - Aaron Olmos - RS Freshman OR Colton Beisley - Sophomore

5. CAL POLY - Dylan Miracle - True Freshman OR Joe La Rosa - RS Freshman

174 lbs

1. ARIZONA STATE - Zahid Valencia - RS Junior

2. OREGON STATE - Colt Doyle - RS Junior

3. STANFORD - Rico Stormer - Graduate Student OR Foster Karmon - RS Freshman

4. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Bryan Battisto - RS Senior

5. CAL POLY - Nathan Tausch - True Freshman

184 lbs

1. ARIZONA STATE - Kordell Norfleet - Sophomore OR Jacen Petersen - RS Senior

2. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Dom Ducharme - RS Sophomore

3. STANFORD - Colbey Harlan - True Freshman OR Austin Flores - RS Junior

4. OREGON STATE - Myles Terry - Sophomore

5. CAL POLY - Willem DeBoer - RS Sophomore OR Matt Menyacsek - RS Junior

197 lbs

1. STANFORD - Nathan Traxler - RS Sophomore

2. CAL POLY - Thomas Lane -Junior

3. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Josh Loomer - RS Freshman OR Mark Penyacsek - RS Junior

4. OREGON STATE - Jamarcus Grant - RS Sophomore

5. ARIZONA STATE - Austyn Harris - RS Senior OR Chad Porter - RS Freshman

285 lbs

1. OREGON STATE - Amarveer Dhesi - Graduate Student

2. STANFORD - Haydn Maley - RS Freshman

3. ARIZONA STATE - Brady Daniel - RS Freshman

4. CAL STATE BAKERSFIELD - Jarrod Snyder - RS Sophomore OR Jacob Sieder - RS Sophomore

5. CAL POLY - Sam Aguilar - RS Freshman OR Seville Hayes - Senior

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There was a time, not that long ago, where the Pac-12 was a force.  Now, it is pretty much ASU and then blah.    OSU has a couple top guys in Bresser and Dhesi, but they are both Seniors.  It may be time for Zalesky to retire soon with the future looking quite bleak for the Beavers.

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23 hours ago, MSU158 said:

There was a time, not that long ago, where the Pac-12 was a force.  Now, it is pretty much ASU and then blah.    OSU has a couple top guys in Bresser and Dhesi, but they are both Seniors.  It may be time for Zalesky to retire soon with the future looking quite bleak for the Beavers.

I don't disagree with this BUT..............right now I'd say Stanford is the 2nd best team in the PAC 12 wrestling.   And Stanford will be even better than Oregon State next season as you pointed out Oregon State's two best are both in their final year of eligibility.  Stanford has two or three Seniors (depending on Paul Fox) in their starting lineup but they have some very impressive freshmen being redshirted this season (Shane Griffith who is 20-2 this season and Real Woods who is 9-1 this season and Tyler Eischens, who is 11-4 this season for example).

I don't know what the Oregon State staff has been doing the last four years as far as recruiting is concerned but it clearly hasn't resulted in any improvement in their team.  They have done nothing but get worse every year it seems.

Edited by Bronco
correction

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If point values of 10, 8, 6, 4 and 2 are assigned to the ratings (10 points for first, 8 for second, etc.) above you would see the following point totals for each of the five PAC 12 teams

1. Arizona State - 82 points

2. Stanford - 74 points

3. Oregon State - 60 points

4. Cal State Bakersfield - 58 points

5. Cal Poly - 26 points

Oregon State is third and just barely ahead of Cal State Bakersfield.

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41 minutes ago, Bronco said:

If point values of 10, 8, 6, 4 and 2 are assigned to the ratings (10 points for first, 8 for second, etc.) above you would see the following point totals for each of the five PAC 12 teams

1. Arizona State - 82 points

2. Stanford - 74 points

3. Oregon State - 60 points

4. Cal State Bakersfield - 58 points

5. Cal Poly - 26 points

Oregon State is third and just barely ahead of Cal State Bakersfield.

Although I really would like to see Borelli do well, Stanford's position in the Pac 12 is more indicative of how BAD the conference is now versus Stanford being a good team.  Do you think they could score 5 pts or more at NCAA's?  Although OSU admittedly relies on their bookends to score nearly all their points, they still have 40 pt potential.  That is a GIANT difference considering this sport only really cares about March............

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This will be Willits brothers Oregon State team next season.  Then hope guys not yet in line up can make a difference.  Brandon Kaylor, Logan Meek, JJ Dixon.  It will be a lean year.

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21 hours ago, Bronco said:

I don't disagree with this BUT..............right now I'd say Stanford is the 2nd best team in the PAC 12 wrestling.   And Stanford will be even better than Oregon State next season as you pointed out Oregon State's two best are both in their final year of eligibility.  Stanford has two or three Seniors (depending on Paul Fox) in their starting lineup but they have some very impressive freshmen being redshirted this season (Shane Griffith who is 20-2 this season and Real Woods who is 9-1 this season and Tyler Eischens, who is 11-4 this season for example).

I don't know what the Oregon State staff has been doing the last four years as far as recruiting is concerned but it clearly hasn't resulted in any improvement in their team.  They have done nothing but get worse every year it seems.

McKenna went from 3rd as a freshman to not placing as a sophomore.  Give borelli and his band of clowns a chance to uncoach those freshman and it will be business as usual.

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13 minutes ago, DrStrange said:

McKenna went from 3rd as a freshman to not placing as a sophomore.  Give borelli and his band of clowns a chance to uncoach those freshman and it will be business as usual.

You realize he was 28-1 going into NCAA's that year? Admittedly, he had a disappointing tournament, but he lost a crazy OT match to Thorn(who proved a bad match up mollywhopping him 13-3 the next year while at tOSU) and he would then lose to a redhot, dangerous Eierman in the R12.  Eierman also beat Kolodzik and Ashnault in that bracket.

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On 1/16/2019 at 7:45 AM, MSU158 said:

Although I really would like to see Borelli do well, Stanford's position in the Pac 12 is more indicative of how BAD the conference is now versus Stanford being a good team.  Do you think they could score 5 pts or more at NCAA's?  Although OSU admittedly relies on their bookends to score nearly all their points, they still have 40 pt potential.  That is a GIANT difference considering this sport only really cares about March............

How a team finishes their season at the NCAA tournament is an extremely poor way of determining if one wrestling team is better than another team.   A much better indication of one team being better than another is a dual between the two teams.

I agree with you that Oregon State will likely earn more team points at the NCAA tournament THIS YEAR - thanks solely to Bresser and Dhesi.   But that has nothing to do with which team is the better team.  Oregon State hosts Stanford this year on Feb. 15th so I guess we'll find out then which is the better of those two teams.

Here's how I see that match-up going on Feb. 15th:

125 lbs - Ronnie Bresser (Oregon State) over Gabe Townsell (Stanford) - Bresser won 6-2 over Townsell at the 2018 PAC 12 tournament & 6-1 in the 2018 dual last season - OREGON STATE 3 - STANFORD 0

133 lbs - Mason Pengilly (Stanford) over Kegan Calkins (Oregon State) - These two haven't faced each other since way back in Nov. 2014 and Pengilly won that match by MD (14-3) - STANFORD 4 - OREGON STATE - 3

141 lbs - Dalton Young (Stanford) over Grant Willits (Oregon State) - They have no common opponents - STANFORD - 7 - OREGON STATE - 3

149 lbs - Requir van der Merwe (Stanford) over Josh Reyes (Oregon State) - They have 2 common opponents this season (2018-2019) and van der Merwe is 2-0 vs. those two common opponents and Reyes is 0-2 against them.  STANFORD 10 - OREGON STATE - 3

157 lbs Hunter Willits (Oregon State) over Dominick Mandarino OR Paul Fox (Stanford) - Fox and Hunter Willits had 3 matches last season.  Willits won the last one 6-5 and Fox won the 2nd match 5-2 and the 1st match 3-2.  Willits and Mandarino have not faced each other.  Based on the rankings I'd have to pick Willits but this match could be a toss-up as Mandarino has beaten Fox twice this season.  STANFORD - 10 - OREGON STATE - 6

165 lbs Paul Fox OR Dominick Mandarino  OR Brandon Dallavia (Stanford) over Aaron Olmos (OSU) - STANFORD 13 -  OREGON STATE - 6

174 lbs Colt Doyle (Oregon State) over Rico Stormer (Stanford) - The rankings of these two on WrestleStat say Doyle is favored in this match but frankly I see it as a toss-up that could go either way.  Just for this discussion I'll pick Doyle here over Stormer - STANFORD 13 - OREGON STATE - 9

184 lbs Colbey Harlan OR Austin Flores (Stanford) over Myles Terry OR Bob Coleman (Oregon State) - STANFORD 16 - OREGON STATE - 9

197 lbs Nathan Traxler (Stanford) by MD over Jamarcus Grant (Oregon State) - STANFORD 20 - OREGON STATE 9

285 lbs Amarveer Dhesi (Oregon State) by MD over Hadyn Maley (Stanford) - STANFORD 20 - OREGON STATE 13


 

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3 hours ago, Bronco said:

How a team finishes their season at the NCAA tournament is an extremely poor way of determining if one wrestling team is better than another team.   A much better indication of one team being better than another is a dual between the two teams.

I agree with you that Oregon State will likely earn more team points at the NCAA tournament THIS YEAR - thanks solely to Bresser and Dhesi.   But that has nothing to do with which team is the better team.  Oregon State hosts Stanford this year on Feb. 15th so I guess we'll find out then which is the better of those two teams.

Here's how I see that match-up going on Feb. 15th:

125 lbs - Ronnie Bresser (Oregon State) over Gabe Townsell (Stanford) - Bresser won 6-2 over Townsell at the 2018 PAC 12 tournament & 6-1 in the 2018 dual last season - OREGON STATE 3 - STANFORD 0

133 lbs - Mason Pengilly (Stanford) over Kegan Calkins (Oregon State) - These two haven't faced each other since way back in Nov. 2014 and Pengilly won that match by MD (14-3) - STANFORD 4 - OREGON STATE - 3

141 lbs - Dalton Young (Stanford) over Grant Willits (Oregon State) - They have no common opponents - STANFORD - 7 - OREGON STATE - 3

149 lbs - Requir van der Merwe (Stanford) over Josh Reyes (Oregon State) - They have 2 common opponents this season (2018-2019) and van der Merwe is 2-0 vs. those two common opponents and Reyes is 0-2 against them.  STANFORD 10 - OREGON STATE - 3

157 lbs Hunter Willits (Oregon State) over Dominick Mandarino OR Paul Fox (Stanford) - Fox and Hunter Willits had 3 matches last season.  Willits won the last one 6-5 and Fox won the 2nd match 5-2 and the 1st match 3-2.  Willits and Mandarino have not faced each other.  Based on the rankings I'd have to pick Willits but this match could be a toss-up as Mandarino has beaten Fox twice this season.  STANFORD - 10 - OREGON STATE - 6

165 lbs Paul Fox OR Dominick Mandarino  OR Brandon Dallavia (Stanford) over Aaron Olmos (OSU) - STANFORD 13 -  OREGON STATE - 6

174 lbs Colt Doyle (Oregon State) over Rico Stormer (Stanford) - The rankings of these two on WrestleStat say Doyle is favored in this match but frankly I see it as a toss-up that could go either way.  Just for this discussion I'll pick Doyle here over Stormer - STANFORD 13 - OREGON STATE - 9

184 lbs Colbey Harlan OR Austin Flores (Stanford) over Myles Terry OR Bob Coleman (Oregon State) - STANFORD 16 - OREGON STATE - 9

197 lbs Nathan Traxler (Stanford) by MD over Jamarcus Grant (Oregon State) - STANFORD 20 - OREGON STATE 9

285 lbs Amarveer Dhesi (Oregon State) by MD over Hadyn Maley (Stanford) - STANFORD 20 - OREGON STATE 13


 

I wasn't really interested in who was better in a dual format.  I was talking about how IRRELEVANT the conference has become in the NCAA Tournament.

  Still, you are arguing dual format in a sport that only values the NCAA Tournament.  Being a National Dual proponent, I sympathize, but your argument falls on mostly dead ears.  Ask most PSU or Iowa fans which team they would consider better regardless of the dual result.

Either way, the Pac 12 is a mess with the exception of ASU.  This is exceptionally sad considering all the West Coast wrestling talent, especially California.....

Edited by MSU158

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These are "Bronco Rankings" correct? PAC 12 official rankings are different 

Dalton Young is most likely at 133 now - see Scuffle results

I believe that Grant Willits is the only starter at 141 with a winning record in Pac12

OSU recruiting hasn't been real great last few years...but they have some good young ones in the Willits and some RS-  and  scored Garcia from NJ. 

 

Edited by Idaho

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The collapse of wrestling in the PAC 12 is amazing inasmuch as this conference prides itself, or did, on excellence in and support of Olympic Sports. At least 2 core teams will have to revive wrestling for the sport to remain alive long term, just 1 bringing it back wont be enough. Looking at you, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, USC, Washington St. 

 

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15 hours ago, MSU158 said:

I wasn't really interested in who was better in a dual format.  I was talking about how IRRELEVANT the conference has become in the NCAA Tournament.

  Still, you are arguing dual format in a sport that only values the NCAA Tournament.  Being a National Dual proponent, I sympathize, but your argument falls on mostly dead ears.  Ask most PSU or Iowa fans which team they would consider better regardless of the dual result.

Either way, the Pac 12 is a mess with the exception of ASU.  This is exceptionally sad considering all the West Coast wrestling talent, especially California.....

I agree with you that the PAC 12 CONFERENCE is a "mess" - especially in regards to wrestling.   But what do you expect when your conference is controlled by fools who do their very best to make sure that as few people as possible have access to their conference TV network (the Pac 12 Network).  

And frankly I think the future of the PAC 12 in wrestling is extremely gloomy.   The fact that Fresno State's revived wrestling program chose to join the Big 12 for wrestling rather than the PAC 12 is a big red flag IMO.

If and when the PAC 12 drops the sport of wrestling there will be zero NCAA Division I wrestling conferences in the Western U.S.

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11 hours ago, Idaho said:

These are "Bronco Rankings" correct? PAC 12 official rankings are different 

Dalton Young is most likely at 133 now - see Scuffle results

I believe that Grant Willits is the only starter at 141 with a winning record in Pac12

OSU recruiting hasn't been real great last few years...but they have some good young ones in the Willits and some RS-  and  scored Garcia from NJ. 

 

These rankings that I posted here are based on the WrestleStat website.  Which I will acknowledge is not the best however they do provide more results & info than any other.

Dalton Young did compete at 133 at the Southern Scuffle - where he went 1-2 at 133 lbs (7-4 loss to Iowa State's Todd Small and a 4-3 loss to Penn State's Roman Bravo-Young.  It would appear that now the starter at 141 lbs for Stanford is Brandon Kier (Junior) who has only had two matches this season - losing 10-7 to # 12 ranked Matt Findlay of Utah Valley and winning 8-6 in Sudden Victory overtime over Harvard's Ryan Friedman.

Edited by Bronco

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I think the Cal Poly 197 better get his ass back into the Cal Poly swim lane.  Jerk decided to do well enough to get ranked 2 instead of 5.  

 

Dude, be a team player and get back in line.  No need to be different from the rest of your team.

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11 hours ago, Bronco said:

I agree with you that the PAC 12 CONFERENCE is a "mess" - especially in regards to wrestling.   But what do you expect when your conference is controlled by fools who do their very best to make sure that as few people as possible have access to their conference TV network (the Pac 12 Network).  

And frankly I think the future of the PAC 12 in wrestling is extremely gloomy.   The fact that Fresno State's revived wrestling program chose to join the Big 12 for wrestling rather than the PAC 12 is a big red flag IMO.

If and when the PAC 12 drops the sport of wrestling there will be zero NCAA Division I wrestling conferences in the Western U.S.

The Fresno State situation has more to it. They wanted to join the Pac-12 for wrestling, however at the time BSU was still technically (by weeks) still in the conference and they have a policy of how many affiliate teams can be in the Pac-12. They said no because they already had several. BSU dropped wrestling, they went back to FSU but by that time the deal was already in place for FSU to join the B12.  I am not sure how long the contract is for to be in the B12. I am not sure where Cal Baptist will land - I haven't heard. This is all from a Pac12 coach btw. After last season there were several ideas on the table to add teams and expand affiliate membership or create a conference for wrestling with the B12. I have no idea where that is now, but I know that's where it was last Spring. I agree completely, that it is walking a tight rope for sure. 

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11 hours ago, Bronco said:

These rankings that I posted here are based on the WrestleStat website.  Which I will acknowledge is not the best however they do provide more results & info than any other.

Dalton Young did compete at 133 at the Southern Scuffle - where he went 1-2 at 133 lbs (7-4 loss to Iowa State's Todd Small and a 4-3 loss to Penn State's Roman Bravo-Young.  It would appear that now the starter at 141 lbs for Stanford is Brandon Kier (Junior) who has only had two matches this season - losing 10-7 to # 12 ranked Matt Findlay of Utah Valley and winning 8-6 in Sudden Victory overtime over Harvard's Ryan Friedman.

I thought maybe that's where they were from when I looked - they use an algorithm for those rankings that don't make sense sometimes - like Fix being ranked 2nd behind guys he beat already. It's a tremendous website - but it is a bit off in my opinion. 

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