Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
MSU158

Iowa Expectation and Hatred/Dislike

Recommended Posts

For all the negativity on this board, even without McDonough, Ramos or St. John winning NCAA's, they truly could and should outscore the 107.5 they scored last year. The Iowa production the last couple years has still been good enough to win quite a few championships in different years. I simply think their 3rd place finishes have been more a testament to how GREAT PSU has been along with how deep Cornell and Minnesota were the last couple years. Iowa has NOT dropped off! PSU has instead become a VERY SPECIAL team. Iowa qualifed 9 guys for Nationals. PSU and Minnesota qualified 10. Other than when you wrestle each other there is NO defense against how the other team's guys do. Iowa should have 6 AA's and if Moore, Lofthouse or Burak get a lucky draw another AA or two could happen. The crazy thing is even with 8 or even 9 AA's they are STILL very hard-pressed to beat Minnesota let alone PSU. With how Zilverberg wrestled this weekend 10 AA's for Minnesota is not out of the question if Thorn can turn it on in 10 days. Even with 10 AA's Minnesota needs Ness, Storley, Steinhaus and Nelson to finish as high as possible to challenge PSU's bonus pts.

 

The sad thing is I would be happy with half the production Iowa is getting this year for MSU! :oops:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Iowa were to get 8-9 AAs and Minny9-10 and PSU was to win the championship the would be a national championship for the ages!! :shock:

 

Then the question would be what would each teams fan(atics)s have to bitch aabout....lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with PSU is that they get so many bonus points, it is like having another finalist/champion. Add those points to the finalists and champs that they actually get, and it becomes tough to even get close to them at NCAA's. It would take an epic collapse of one of their big studs (Taylor, Ruth, Wright) and an incredible performance from Iowa or Minnesota to beat them. We would probably also need their other great wrestlers (Mega, Alton's, Brown) to get low AA's for another team to be in contention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Iowa has the type of NCAA tournament predicted in this forum, the coaches and fans will get the idea how Stan Abel and the OU fans felt in 1982. OU 3 champs; Metzger, Schultz and Schultz. A 2nd Steve (Dr. Death) Williams who lost to Bruce Baumgartner. OU also had a 3rd Roger Frizzell, and a 4th place, and finished 30 points behind Iowa. The OU score would have won the NCAA title all but two years.

 

I think McD and Ramos finish in the top 3. Ballweg got schooled by H. Stieber, so he isn't as good as I thought. St. John will have a hard time making the finals, Green and Dieringer are two young guns with a leg attack that will give St. John problems. I don't expect Evans to get pancaked again to his back, but 174 is such a deep weight, who knows who'll windup where. The rest of Iowa's qualifiers are a crapshoot. 197 isn't too deep so Burak has a chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe Nationals will be different, but PSU didn't win B1G because of their bonus point margin.

PSU 20.5

MN 15

IA 13

 

7.5 spread from first to third doesn't change any outcomes there. If it's much closer (which I think it will be) in two weeks could play a much larger role.

Penn State had 25.5 bonus last year if I recall correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't really see Penn State losing at Nationals. Penn State beat Okie State and Minny at The Scuffle, and they beat Iowa and Minny at Big10's, and in neither event did they come close to reaching their full potential. Yet they still win.

 

If Penn State wrestles to their potential then they win. And even if they don't they probably still win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't really see Penn State losing at Nationals. Penn State beat Okie State and Minny at The Scuffle, and they beat Iowa and Minny at Big10's, and in neither event did they come close to reaching their full potential. Yet they still win.

 

If Penn State wrestles to their potential then they win. And even if they don't they probably still win.

I would love to have this comfort you seem to have.

Penn State won B1G by less than comfortable margin right? Now lets make 1 change. Storley wins it at 174. How does that change things from a team score? 8 point swing in the finals alone, plus semis etc etc.

Of course it's hypothetical and yes the Altons could have great tourney and increase the lead but this isn't the same MN and OSU. Not to mention that there were some great wrestlers and teams not in the mix at the scuffle.

Man, I hope you're right though. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Either Storley was sick or he peaked a little early. He looked terrible. I can't see him winning the whole thing.

 

However, if he was sick and is then 100%, all bets may be off. I just bought an exhorbitantly priced ticket in a primo location and I hope I get my money's worth. :?:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't really see Penn State losing at Nationals. Penn State beat Okie State and Minny at The Scuffle, and they beat Iowa and Minny at Big10's, and in neither event did they come close to reaching their full potential. Yet they still win.

 

If Penn State wrestles to their potential then they win. And even if they don't they probably still win.

I would love to have this comfort you seem to have.

Penn State won B1G by less than comfortable margin right? Now lets make 1 change. Storley wins it at 174. How does that change things from a team score? 8 point swing in the finals alone, plus semis etc etc.

Of course it's hypothetical and yes the Altons could have great tourney and increase the lead but this isn't the same MN and OSU. Not to mention that there were some great wrestlers and teams not in the mix at the scuffle.

Man, I hope you're right though. :D

 

two-six, the reason for my comfort is that when you look at where the Iowa and Minny wrestlers finished at Big10's, some of them won't come anywhere near close to that at Nationals. Here is a list of where they finished at Big10's and where they'll be projected at NCAA's.

 

Every team will have some drop off, but Penn State will still be a bonus machine. I'm confident.

 

Iowa

 

McD 2 /3rd or 4th some bonus

Ramlos 2 /2 some bonus

Ballweg 2 / 7 to 10

Dziewa n/a

St. John 3 / 3rd - 6th

Evans 2 / 1rst - 8th

Lofthouse 3 / 6th - 12th

Burak 4 / 2 and 2

Telford 3 / 3rd - 8th

 

Minny

 

Thorn 6 / 1 and 2

C. Dardanes 4 / 5 to 8

N. Dardanes 3 / 7 to 10

Ness 1 / 2 to 6 bonus +

Zilverberg 5 / 2 and 2

Yohn 3 / 2 and 2

Storley 7 / 1 to 8

Steinhouse 2 / 2nd to 6th some bonus

Schiller 2 / 8 to 12

Nelson 1 / 1 to 3 some bonus

 

Penn State

 

Nico 3/ 3rd or 4th bonus points

Conaway: 5 / 1 and 2

Pearsall: 5 / 1 and 2

Andrew: 4 / 4 to 12, still lots of bonus pts

Dylan: 6 / 5 to 8

Taylor 2 / 1 or 2 lots of bonus

Brown 1 / 1 to 8 some bonus

Ruth 1 / 1 lots of bonus

Wright 1 / 2 to 4 (I have Kilgore winning) still, lots of bonus

Lawson 8 / 1 and 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

two-six, the reason for my comfort is that when you look at where the Iowa and Minny wrestlers finished at Big10's, some of them won't come anywhere near close to that at Nationals. Here is a list of where they finished at Big10's and where they'll be projected at NCAA's.

 

Every team will have some drop off, but Penn State will still be a bonus machine. I'm confident.

 

Iowa

 

McD 2 /3rd or 4th some bonus

Delgado 2 /2 some bonus

Ballweg 2 / 7 to 10

Dziewa n/a

St. John 3 / 3rd - 6th

Evans 2 / 1rst - 8th

Lofthouse 3 / 6th - 12th

Burak 4 / 2 and 2

Telford 3 / 3rd - 8th

 

Minny

 

Thorn 6 / 1 and 2

C. Dardanes 4 / 5 to 8

N. Dardanes 3 / 7 to 10

Ness 1 / 2 to 6 bonus +

Zilverberg 5 / 2 and 2

Yohn 3 / 2 and 2

Storley 7 / 1 to 8

Steinhouse 2 / 2nd to 6th some bonus

Schiller 2 / 8 to 12

Nelson 1 / 1 to 3 some bonus

 

Penn State

 

Nico 3/ 3rd or 4th lots of bonus points

Conaway: 5 / 1 and 2

Pearsall: 5 / 1 and 2

Andrew: 4 / 4 to 12, still lots of bonus pts

Dylan: 6 / 5 to 8

Taylor 2 / 1 or 2 lots of bonus

Brown 1 / 1 to 8 some bonus

Ruth 1 / 1 lots of bonus

Wright 1 / 2 to 4 (I have Kilgore winning) still, lots of bonus

Lawson 8 / 1 and 2

I assume Delgado is Ramos ;)

St John is in the hunt, dunno why you don't have 1st as possible.

I don't think Nico is the bonus scorer you think he is.

We scored 25.5 last year, I think this year will be less with fewer champs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

two-six,

 

I think Penn State can potentially score even more bonus in 2013 than in 2012. Check this out from the past two NCAA Championships:

 

Penn State Bonus points ONLY at the NCAA Tournament...

 

2011 2012

125 0 1

133 4 0

141 3 0

149 1 2

157 2.5 1

165 0 9.5

174 4 6.5

184 2 4

197 0 0

285 0 1.5

Tot 16.5 25.5

 

The numbers that stick out to me above are Nico getting 3rd place, Molinaro winning, and Dylan taking 3rd, and between them scoring only 4 bonus points. Of course, Molinaro was injured.

 

Those three weights will score more than 4 bonus points in 2013. I'll give these three weights 7 bp for a +3 this year.

 

Taylor and Ruth will probably decline a little. I'll reduce them by 3. So that is minus -3. Wright stays the same. So far we are even with 2012.

 

Will Matt Brown, Jimmy Lawson, Bryan Pearsall and Jordan Conaway get more than 1.5 combined? I believe there are a couple earkly riound pins in there somewhere, so I will say yes. The end result is that we'll have slightly more bonus than year if this all works out.

 

This will give us a 6 to 10 point edge in bonus points. I'm confident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How many years did Coach Zelesky go without an NCAA Team Title before he was so rudely fired?

 

Don't go there .... just yet. Let's wait to see what happens at the NCAA's .....

 

We had a huge long thread about that a while back. The results showed a rather close performance over the early years ... even including the transfers from VT. Bottom line, if Brands doesn't win the Big Dance this year... It will be painfully close with regards to Coach Z ... if not worse.

 

Meanwhile, I'll try to poke around and see if I can find that old thread ... It was a DOOZY !!!

 

PS: We love Coach Z out here in the NW ..... He is doing a fine job. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How many years did Coach Zelesky go without an NCAA Team Title before he was so rudely fired?

 

Don't go there .... just yet. Let's wait to see what happens at the NCAA's .....

 

We had a huge long thread about that a while back. The results showed a rather close performance over the early years ... even including the transfers from VT. Bottom line, if Brands doesn't win the Big Dance this year... It will be painfully close with regards to Coach Z ... if not worse.

 

Meanwhile, I'll try to poke around and see if I can find that old thread ... It was a DOOZY !!!

 

PS: We love Coach Z out here in the NW ..... He is doing a fine job. ;)

 

Brought it up because Coach Zelesky is a class act, Brands - no matter his winning - the last three letters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zalesky was head coach from the 1998 season until 2006 (nine years).

His dual record was 56-19 in the Big 10 and 127-34 overall.

 

Here's where his teams placed each year (and the # of Big 10 and NCAA champs per year):

 

Big 10 Place: 1, 2, 1, 3, 2, 2, 1, 4, 6

NCAA Place : 1, 1, 1, 2, 4, 8, 2, 7, 4

 

# of Big 10 champs: 3, 3, 4, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0

# of NCAA champs : 3, 2, 1, 2, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the topic of Z has cropped up again: If Mocco had remained at Iowa and scored the same points for them that he did at OSU, Z would have gotten another team title. The 1997 team that broke the team record at CF was Gable's team of record but was coached all year by Z. Z left TB with a LOADED room including Falck, Tsirtsis, Galanakis, Grunder, M*, Leudke, Perry, Beatty, Keddy, Erekson, Fields and I may have missed someone. In TB's 1st year without his VT transfers, Iowa scored fewer Nationals points than Z did the year before. We will not truly know how good TB is until some time down the road. Go to the Hawkeye website and see how many points Z's recruits scored in the nationals. By the way, Z went to a program that was almost dead and they placed 10th last year and will probably do better this year, without the benefit of being in a high school wrestling hotbed like Iowa, Oklahoma, Ohio, Pennsysvania, Illinois, Minnesota and the like. Oh, yes, I forgot about Dan Dennis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iowa has to understand the Gable era is over, The domination they showed will never happen again. They sit here and try and excuse the cry baby antics and constant poor sportsmanship by saying finishing anything but first is unacceptable...Well no top level program wants to finish 2nd, but for them to do the crap they do is bs....Its going to take a minor miracle to unseat PSU at the top, everybody knows that, but Iowa still acts like they are entitled to special rules and treatment because of the dominant Gable era. Thats why I hate them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Iowa has to understand the Gable era is over, The domination they showed will never happen again. They sit here and try and excuse the cry baby antics and constant poor sportsmanship by saying finishing anything but first is unacceptable...Well no top level program wants to finish 2nd, but for them to do the crap they do is bs....Its going to take a minor miracle to unseat PSU at the top, everybody knows that, but Iowa still acts like they are entitled to special rules and treatment because of the dominant Gable era. Thats why I hate them.

 

Its going to take a minor miracle to unseat PSU at the top

 

My concern is if Cael get's the room too "stacked up" with guys like DT, Ruth etc ... he's going to need to be very very astute in his recruiting. 'Cause those kind of guys want to start, and not sit. Some of those PA kids, or a guy like Chance M. ..... Might just head somewhere else.

 

Cael is young enough to stick around for quite a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blah blah blah. Iowa did this... Iowa did that.. blah blah... antics.. Gable... blah blah.. entitled.. blah blah.. that's why I hate them.. blah. Who is crying?

 

The Iowa wrestlers are under a microscope all the time. Feel sorry for them, They sure have a lot pressure put on their shoulders. I for one have enjoyed watching McD wrestle for 4 years and I cannot wait to cheer him on in Des Moines! What a blessing it has been to have him represent the hawks at 125. I'm going to miss him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Iowa has to understand the Gable era is over, The domination they showed will never happen again. They sit here and try and excuse the cry baby antics and constant poor sportsmanship by saying finishing anything but first is unacceptable...Well no top level program wants to finish 2nd, but for them to do the crap they do is bs....Its going to take a minor miracle to unseat PSU at the top, everybody knows that, but Iowa still acts like they are entitled to special rules and treatment because of the dominant Gable era. Thats why I hate them.

 

Everything you said here exists only in your head

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Iowa has to understand the Gable era is over, The domination they showed will never happen again. They sit here and try and excuse the cry baby antics and constant poor sportsmanship by saying finishing anything but first is unacceptable...Well no top level program wants to finish 2nd, but for them to do the crap they do is bs....Its going to take a minor miracle to unseat PSU at the top, everybody knows that, but Iowa still acts like they are entitled to special rules and treatment because of the dominant Gable era. Thats why I hate them.

 

Everything you said here exists only in your head

Great, Im glad thats been cleared up. Disregard my last post then...sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't really see Penn State losing at Nationals. Penn State beat Okie State and Minny at The Scuffle, and they beat Iowa and Minny at Big10's, and in neither event did they come close to reaching their full potential. Yet they still win.

 

If Penn State wrestles to their potential then they win. And even if they don't they probably still win.

I would love to have this comfort you seem to have.

Penn State won B1G by less than comfortable margin right? Now lets make 1 change. Storley wins it at 174. How does that change things from a team score? 8 point swing in the finals alone, plus semis etc etc.

Of course it's hypothetical and yes the Altons could have great tourney and increase the lead but this isn't the same MN and OSU. Not to mention that there were some great wrestlers and teams not in the mix at the scuffle.

Man, I hope you're right though. :D

 

two-six, the reason for my comfort is that when you look at where the Iowa and Minny wrestlers finished at Big10's, some of them won't come anywhere near close to that at Nationals. Here is a list of where they finished at Big10's and where they'll be projected at NCAA's.

 

Every team will have some drop off, but Penn State will still be a bonus machine. I'm confident.

 

Iowa

 

McD 2 /3rd or 4th some bonus

Ramlos 2 /2 some bonus

Ballweg 2 / 7 to 10

Dziewa n/a

St. John 3 / 3rd - 6th

Evans 2 / 1rst - 8th

Lofthouse 3 / 6th - 12th

Burak 4 / 2 and 2

Telford 3 / 3rd - 8th

 

Minny

 

Thorn 6 / 1 and 2

C. Dardanes 4 / 5 to 8

N. Dardanes 3 / 7 to 10

Ness 1 / 2 to 6 bonus +

Zilverberg 5 / 2 and 2

Yohn 3 / 2 and 2

Storley 7 / 1 to 8

Steinhouse 2 / 2nd to 6th some bonus

Schiller 2 / 8 to 12

Nelson 1 / 1 to 3 some bonus

 

Penn State

 

Nico 3/ 3rd or 4th bonus points

Conaway: 5 / 1 and 2

Pearsall: 5 / 1 and 2

Andrew: 4 / 4 to 12, still lots of bonus pts

Dylan: 6 / 5 to 8

Taylor 2 / 1 or 2 lots of bonus

Brown 1 / 1 to 8 some bonus

Ruth 1 / 1 lots of bonus

Wright 1 / 2 to 4 (I have Kilgore winning) still, lots of bonus

Lawson 8 / 1 and 2

 

The PSU guys' ceilings and floors are humorously inflated relative to the Minny/Iowa wrestlers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Penn State

 

Nico 3/ 3rd or 4th bonus points

Conaway: 5 / 1 and 2

Pearsall: 5 / 1 and 2

Andrew: 4 / 4 to 12, still lots of bonus pts

Dylan: 6 / 5 to 8

Taylor 2 / 1 or 2 lots of bonus

Brown 1 / 1 to 8 some bonus

Ruth 1 / 1 lots of bonus

Wright 1 / 2 to 4 (I have Kilgore winning) still, lots of bonus

Lawson 8 / 1 and 2

 

The PSU guys' ceilings and floors are humorously inflated relative to the Minny/Iowa wrestlers.

 

Name names, madcat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...