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Fix/Suriano - worst ncaa match of all time?

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Trying to avoid hyperbole here.  But of the matches I’ve seen, in particular the highly anticipated ones .....  yes.  The worst.  

Both wrestlers lost a bit of shine.  Thought they were both badasses that would want to go out there and win that match.

Still both incredible wrestlers.  Just not the type I thought they were.

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From what I have witnessed the past few years is that for whatever reason when two great wrestlers square off they are both conservative for fear of making a mistake that will cost them the match.  In the Fix vs Suriano match both wrestlers were willing to wait for the other one to make a mistake and then try to counter.

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To anyone who watched or heard about their Who's number 1 match and expected a high flying exciting match, you brought this on yourself and just because there was another boring match doesn't mean we need to change some rule or add another one, for crying out loud.

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26 minutes ago, unbiased said:

To anyone who watched or heard about their Who's number 1 match and expected a high flying exciting match, you brought this on yourself and just because there was another boring match doesn't mean we need to change some rule or add another one, for crying out loud.

It needs to change if you want to grow the sport.  With this highly anticipated match if I was a casual watcher and I heard this match was supposed to be the “match of the year” and I sat and watched that for 45 minutes.  Not only would I never watch another wrestling meet in my life but I would tell all of my friends to stay away.

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1 minute ago, BHawk91 said:

It needs to change if you want to grow the sport.  With this highly anticipated match if I was a casual watcher and I heard this match was supposed to be the “match of the year” and I sat and watched that for 45 minutes.  Not only would I never watch another wrestling meet in my life but I would tell all of my friends to stay away.

Again, what did you get from their first match that made you excited about this one or make you think this would be any different. A lot of the time the two "best" or really good wrestlers at a weight are the most boring matches to watch. I want to grow the sports as much as anyone else but I know better than to use this match to draw fans. Flo, intermat and everyone else can talk about it all they want but that doesn't make this matchup any good. If you want to show an exciting match to someone or show them a match that you are almost guaranteed will be exciting (and those do exist). This never had an inkling of that. There is nothing wrong with the sport, it's because these two guys are afraid of each other or don't believe in themselves enough to take a shot.

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Again, what did you get from their first match that made you excited about this one or make you think this would be any different. A lot of the time the two "best" or really good wrestlers at a weight are the most boring matches to watch. I want to grow the sports as much as anyone else but I know better than to use this match to draw fans. Flo, intermat and everyone else can talk about it all they want but that doesn't make this matchup any good. If you want to show an exciting match to someone or show them a match that you are almost guaranteed will be exciting (and those do exist). This never had an inkling of that. There is nothing wrong with the sport, it's because these two guys are afraid of each other or don't believe in themselves enough to take a shot.

The first match was 30 minutes of pure scrambling? How is that not exciting?!


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7 minutes ago, unbiased said:

Again, what did you get from their first match that made you excited about this one or make you think this would be any different. A lot of the time the two "best" or really good wrestlers at a weight are the most boring matches to watch. I want to grow the sports as much as anyone else but I know better than to use this match to draw fans. Flo, intermat and everyone else can talk about it all they want but that doesn't make this matchup any good. If you want to show an exciting match to someone or show them a match that you are almost guaranteed will be exciting (and those do exist). This never had an inkling of that. There is nothing wrong with the sport, it's because these two guys are afraid of each other or don't believe in themselves enough to take a shot.

So implement a rule that makes them push the action.  If you want to grow the sport then you need to implement rules that force wrestlers to push the action.  All sports have changed (mostly for the better) by rule changes that focus on offense.  Shot clock and three point line in basketball, play clock in football, smaller pads for goalies and no two-line passes in hockey.  Even baseball put in a few rules that tried to speed up the game and make it more exciting.

 

Wrestling doesn’t have any of these in place.  I didn’t say this was going to be an exciting match.  You commented saying there doesn’t need to be any changes in wrestling because of one boring match.  Boring matches happen all the time and a lot of them are from highly ranked guys that don’t want to lose. So if we want to grow the sport, we need our top rated guys to create action.

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Well, I don't know about you but I cringe every time I see a leg pass. There aren't many things more frustrating then a scramble that ends in a stalemate. 30 minutes of scrambling and no points I'll pass. I do enjoy good scrambling but what is better then that is a nice clean single leg that gets finished. Scrambling shouldn't be praised as much as it is. All it means is you are good defensively unless you can convert and finish. If you don't convert it's a more exciting version of hand fighting. Points are going to draw crowds and keep them coming back for more.

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Unbiased, my call for a shot clock is not based on this match alone. This match epitomizes the need for it but folkstyle in general would benefit from forcing action. I was against the rule for freestyle at first but the rule has made freestyle the clearly more fan-friendly style and I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t have the same effect on folkstyle.

Any rule set that allows for seven or more minutes without a serious, committed attempt to attack by either wrestler is very fundamentally flawed. 

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1 minute ago, BHawk91 said:

So implement a rule that makes them push the action.  If you want to grow the sport then you need to implement rules that force wrestlers to push the action.  All sports have changed (mostly for the better) by rule changes that focus on offense.  Shot clock and three point line in basketball, play clock in football, smaller pads for goalies and no two-line passes in hockey.  Even baseball put in a few rules that tried to speed up the game and make it more exciting.

 

Wrestling doesn’t have any of these in place.  I didn’t say this was going to be an exciting match.  You commented saying there doesn’t need to be any changes in wrestling because of one boring match.  Boring matches happen all the time and a lot of them are from highly ranked guys that don’t want to lose. So if we want to grow the sport, we need our top rated guys to create action.

They have one.

 

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1 minute ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Unbiased, my call for a shot clock is not based on this match alone. This match epitomizes the need for it but folkstyle in general would benefit from forcing action. I was against the rule for freestyle at first but the rule has made freestyle the clearly more fan-friendly style and I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t have the same effect on folkstyle.

Any rule set that allows for seven or more minutes without a serious, committed attempt to attack by either wrestler is very fundamentally flawed. 

See my post above.

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If one guy takes ten shots and his opponent takes zero what happens/should happen? The guy who takes zero should get hit with stalling. If two wrestlers wrestle for almost 8 minutes without either taking a single shot, what should happen? They both should be hit with stalling. Stalling was implemented to promote action and it can when called properly.

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5 minutes ago, unbiased said:

If one guy takes ten shots and his opponent takes zero what happens/should happen? The guy who takes zero should get hit with stalling. If two wrestlers wrestle for almost 8 minutes without either taking a single shot, what should happen? They both should be hit with stalling. Stalling was implemented to promote action and it can when called properly.

Any rule that “when called properly” works but is often not called properly is a rule that doesn’t work. How many more seasons of “if it were called properly...” do we have to endure?

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6 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Any rule that “when called properly” works but is often not called properly is a rule that doesn’t work. How many more seasons of “if it were called properly...” do we have to endure?

Ask the blue ribbon task force.

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12 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

Doesn't a shot clock just encourage guys to take "fake" shots - i.e. leg slaps/half-shots that don't put the shooter in any risk of jeopardy?

No, because you have to score or get docked a point. If you mean fake aggression to not get out on the clock, that’s not the way it has worked at all in freestyle. The flaw with the rule is that determining who is more passive can be subjective (not always obvious). But it would significantly improve lack of action in folkstyle.

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3 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

No, because you have to score or get docked a point. If you mean fake aggression to not get out on the clock, that’s not the way it has worked at all in freestyle. The flaw with the rule is that determining who is more passive can be subjective (not always obvious). But it would significantly improve lack of action in folkstyle.

If you're adding the shot clock you'd also have to add a push out rule.  Otherwise the guy not on the clock could just run away for 30 seconds to secure the point.  

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4 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

No, because you have to score or get docked a point. If you mean fake aggression to not get out on the clock, that’s not the way it has worked at all in freestyle. The flaw with the rule is that determining who is more passive can be subjective (not always obvious). But it would significantly improve lack of action in folkstyle.

This isn't freestyle. Why do we have to try and make it freestyle?

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My biased view.  Suriano had his legs under his shoulders in a normal, aggressive stance the entire time.  Fix was bent 75 degrees at the waist and had his legs as far away as humanly possible.   It worked for him, but he clearly should have been dinged IMHO.  

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Just now, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

If you're adding the shot clock you'd also have to add a push out rule.  Otherwise the guy not on the clock could just run away for 30 seconds to secure the point.  

Not to go down the freestyle rabbit hole but I’m a big proponent of that rule in folk as well. I was very mich against both pushouts and shot clocks for freestyle at first, but it is undeniable that freestyle has benefitted greatly from both. I think we have the best rules for freestyle we’ve ever had.

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