BigTenFanboy 1,695 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JeanGuy said: I don't disagree but this is the same issue that the NHL has. Rules that are not easily understood by the casual observer, and no place to view for that person on a regular basis. True but hockey is a much simpler sport. Theres only 1 way to score and that's by putting the puck in the net. In wrestling theres a myriad of ways to score points making it more difficult for a random person to understand. Adding things like a shot clock in wrestling to me is similar to adding penalty shot in between periods based on which team had possession of the puck more during that period. Basically an artificial score. Edited January 20, 2019 by BigTenFanboy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katie 713 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said: True but hockey is a much simpler sport. Theres only 1 way to score and that's by putting the puck in the net. In wrestling theres a myriad of ways to score points making it more difficult for a random person to understand. Adding things like a shot clock in wrestling to me is similar to adding penalty shot in between periods based on which team had possession of the puck more during that period. Basically an artificial score. Before you didn’t seem to care about fans’ experience. Now you do? (I’m not sure I’m understanding you right.) also, how is a shot clock more “artificial” than a stalling point? Edited January 20, 2019 by Katie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,695 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Katie said: Before you didn’t seem to care about fans’ experience. Now you do? (I’m not sure I’m understanding you right.) also, how is a shot clock more “artificial” than a stalling point? I dont. I'm simply pointing out that hockey is easier for a fan to understand than wrestling. With a shot clock if one guy is put on the clock and doesnt score, the other guy gets a point. It enables the defensive guy to stall outright for those 30 seconds. If the offensive guy fails to score a td the defensive guy gets a point. That's artificial in my opinion. As for wrestling I enjoy watching it in it's current iteration because I can vicariously relate to what the wrestlers on the mat are feeling. I remember trying to ride a tough opponent on bottom. I remember the feeling of being on bottom trying to get out. When I see a wrestler going specifically for a riding time point I feel excited because I felt that as well back in my day. Non wrestling people dont understand what it feels like to wrestle a match therefor wont understand the value of a riding point. Edited January 20, 2019 by BigTenFanboy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jammen 299 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Katie said: Seeding tournaments, a push out rule, shot clocks, and de-emphasizing riding time would make folkstyle much better for fans But none of that will happen people the folkstyle establishment does not seem to make decisions with fans in mind Katie, don't forget the 2 point almost-a-takedown. The best thing about freestyle is that there are always lots of empty seats so I can stretch my legs out. 1 danoftw reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boompa 165 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said: Sport wont grow from the top. It needs to grow from the bottom... youth, junior high level. Which is dying as we speak. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,695 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Boompa said: Which is dying as we speak. Exactly. We need more people who are willing to introduce and coach at the youth level. Most kids coming out of college want to coach at the high school level becuase it's more exciting and gets more recognition. More people need to be willing to get in the trenches and coach at the most basic level. Kids dont become fans of Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Snyder before they ever wrestle. Its after they start wrestling they discover who these people are. So get as many youth kids to wrestle and that will grow the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,695 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, jammen said: Katie, don't forget the 2 point almost-a-takedown. The best thing about freestyle is that there are always lots of empty seats so I can stretch my legs out. Yea try explaining "correct throw" to a non-wrestling person. That'll for sure impress them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katie 713 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said: Yea try explaining "correct throw" to a non-wrestling person. That'll for sure impress them. I don’t recall saying I wanted to replace folkstyle with freestyle. But if we’re talking about fans, there are far more freestyle fans worldwide than folkstyle fans. Edited January 20, 2019 by Katie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,695 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 Just now, Katie said: I don’t recall replacing folkstyle with freestyle. But if we’re talking about fans, there are far more freestyle fans worldwide than folkstyle fans. There are far more soccer fans than football fans worldwide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fullnelson 108 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 2 hours ago, JeanGuy said: Sitting guys out is bad for the sport as a whole. Why do NFL teams hold guys out of games-maybe they are not healthy enough to compete. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigerfan 146 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 I can't speak for any other programs, but I know the Mizzou program fairly intimately. The coaches would NEVER sit a healthy wrestler to protect a seed. That said, at what point after Nov 1 is any starter truly healthy? The bottom line is only one thing matters, and that's March. Everything else is purely preparation. Sometimes match experience is the best prep, but sometimes, for various reasons, resting/not making weight is the best prep. I hate to resurrect this horse, but as long as there is no National Championship associated with dual meets, they will remain just another form of practice for the big show in March. Those crying about ducking are in some cases the same ones reluctant to remove the team championship from the individual tourney and add a true team dual championship instead. The two beliefs are incongruent. March is all that matters, fans be damned. I would bet that every coach is completely focused on preparing each and every wrestler to perform at his peak in March. Sometimes that means wrestling tough competition, sometimes it might mean I night off against a particularly tough opponent. The prospective seeding has very little, if any, to do with such decisions. All this ducking talk is kinda ridiculous, honestly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katie 713 Report post Posted January 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said: There are far more soccer fans than football fans worldwide. And soccer in the US has a league where the average team value is $240 million. How does folkstyle compare? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,695 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, Katie said: And soccer in the US has a league where the average team value is $240 million. How does folkstyle compare? What is the average value of any wrestling team world wide? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katie 713 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, tigerfan said: I can't speak for any other programs, but I know the Mizzou program fairly intimately. The coaches would NEVER sit a healthy wrestler to protect a seed. That said, at what point after Nov 1 is any starter truly healthy? The bottom line is only one thing matters, and that's March. Everything else is purely preparation. Sometimes match experience is the best prep, but sometimes, for various reasons, resting/not making weight is the best prep. I hate to resurrect this horse, but as long as there is no National Championship associated with dual meets, they will remain just another form of practice for the big show in March. Those crying about ducking are in some cases the same ones reluctant to remove the team championship from the individual tourney and add a true team dual championship instead. The two beliefs are incongruent. March is all that matters, fans be damned. I would bet that every coach is completely focused on preparing each and every wrestler to perform at his peak in March. Sometimes that means wrestling tough competition, sometimes it might mean I night off against a particularly tough opponent. The prospective seeding has very little, if any, to do with such decisions. All this ducking talk is kinda ridiculous, honestly. I’m not saying any coach is doing anything wrong, given the current system. I’m saying it sucks for fans when a top wrestler sits out a match against another tough wrestler. Who wants to see a top- ten wrestler against a smaller backup? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katie 713 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said: What is the average value of any wrestling team world wide? Why dont you tell me? I believe there are pro leagues in Germany, India, and Iran. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,695 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, Katie said: I’m not saying any coach is doing anything wrong, given the current system. I’m saying it sucks for fans when a top wrestler sits out a match against another tough wrestler. Who wants to see a top- ten wrestler against a smaller backup? That's not what you said. You said you wanted folk to implement new scoring system and gave examples that are lifted directly from freestyle. I think everyone agrees that it sucks when a top level guy sits out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,695 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Katie said: Why dont you tell me? I believe there are pro leagues in Germany, India, and Iran. No clue. You're the one bringing up monetary values of teams. You said free is more popular than folk worldwide, which is true. I replied that soccer is more popular than football worldwide which is also true. If your point is that theres more money put into soccer world wide than wrestling I would say "yea no duh." considering it's the most popular sport in the world. But I never tried to compare wrestling to soccer. By bringing up how much soccer teams are worth vs wrestling teams, you did. Edited January 21, 2019 by BigTenFanboy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 3,689 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, HuskerMac said: Cant Believe Cenzo ran for the last minute in the 3rd without a stall call. Or The crap stall calls on Red. Cenzo is literally within the blue Lion Logo in the center of the mat for all but about 6 or 7 seconds out of the final minute. Literally. https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6261478-nebraska-vs-penn-state-2019-ncaa-wrestling/videos?playing=6328786 As for the Lee - Red match, the stall calls came this way. Period 2 Lee stands at 23 seconds left, the count doesn't even start until 19 seconds left, the point is awarded at 11 seconds left. 12 seconds of standing time elapsed before Red got pointed. In period 3 Lee stood at 54 seconds left and Red makes no return attempt when at 48 seconds left he is again pointed. 8 seconds. Now, contrast that with Lee starting from top in period 3. Once Red gets to his feet and 5 seconds elapse with the one official not having even started his count, Lee simply cuts him. Lee operated within the rule, Red did not and gave up the points instead. https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6261478-nebraska-vs-penn-state-2019-ncaa-wrestling/videos?playing=6328792 Edited January 21, 2019 by TBar1977 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuskerMac 26 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 2 hours ago, TBar1977 said: Cenzo is literally within the blue Lion Logo in the center of the mat for all but about 6 or 7 seconds out of the final minute. Literally. https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6261478-nebraska-vs-penn-state-2019-ncaa-wrestling/videos?playing=6328786 As for the Lee - Red match, the stall calls came this way. Period 2 Lee stands at 23 seconds left, the count doesn't even start until 19 seconds left, the point is awarded at 11 seconds left. 12 seconds of standing time elapsed before Red got pointed. In period 3 Lee stood at 54 seconds left and Red makes no return attempt when at 48 seconds left he is again pointed. 8 seconds. Now, contrast that with Lee starting from top in period 3. Once Red gets to his feet and 5 seconds elapse with the one official not having even started his count, Lee simply cuts him. Lee operated within the rule, Red did not and gave up the points instead. https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6261478-nebraska-vs-penn-state-2019-ncaa-wrestling/videos?playing=6328792 I guess we see things differently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1032004 739 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 Wait are PSU fans really claiming that Cael didn’t duck Venz? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuskerMac 26 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 On 1/18/2019 at 4:37 AM, HuskerMac said: Whelp as a Husker Fan, 125- I would hope this goes Moisey but who knows, hes been up and down all year plus, I hope he can just make weight. If he does. He wins 3-0 NU 133- RBY I has been looking good and will most likely win but Nebraska just burned the RS of Jevon Parrish ( who I think will wrestle) so this could be closer than people think. I think it will be a good match but ultimately will go to PSU 3-3 141- Would be nice to have Red wrestling like he was at Nationals last year. But he hasn't been close to form this year. If he does Red wins this one. 6-3 NU 149- It doesn't matter who PSU puts here at 149. Nebraska hasn't has a good 149 for awhile. Bonus points for PSU 7-6 PSU 157- Berger has been wrestling his best this year. Smart, controlled wrestling but Nolf is on another level. With a similar opponent in Deakin. One throwing him around like a rag-doll, the other by a 2 TDs in the 3rd, this one goes to Nolf. Probably 7-3. 10-6 PSU 165- In my personal opinion, I like White and If Cenzo goes I still think White wins. Now BIGS ans NCAAs are a different story. 10-9 PSU 174- Labs is gonna be good. and I think he is going to own this class once Hall and Valencia are gone. But at this moment Hall is too much. Bonus Points for Hall 14-9 PSU 184- OK this match is gonna be the best match of the Dual. Venz is a beast and could win in a close match or get a pin. For now Ill call it just a decision. 14-12 PSU 197. Nickle, PIN. If not, then a Tech. Schulz is good. Not Nickle good tho. Ill go with pin. 20-12 PSU 285- Jensen will probably lose in a decision but could be a major or tech.. 25-12 PSU All in all could be bad, Could be Closer. But all in all PSU wins, just a matter of how much. Well I wasn't to far off. 125 PSU weakest spot. Moisey wrestled well and took care of business 3-0 NU 133- RBY is good. Like really good and will run this weight soon. I was hoping for a better performance from Parrish but hes young and wrestling at Penn State is a beast in itself. 4-3 PSU 141- I liked seeing Red wrestle well again. Lee wrestled better. I have my own opinions on the stall calls so I'll leave it at that. 7-3 PSU 149- I was really happy at this weight. Alot better than I thought it was gonna be. I still think NU doesn't have a good 149 10-3 PSU 157- Berger went back to his old style from last year. Not attacking and just reacting. Maybe that's the Nolf affect? Preview of the NCAA finals???? Hopefully a better showing next time. 13-3 PSU 165- White will get Cenzo.........eventually.... Their matches have been close the last 2 times. One in OT and the other by 2 points and no TDs 16-3 PSU 174- Labs wrestled VERY WELL. Really cementing my thought that he will run this weight in the next few seasons. Hall just too much.19-3 PSU 184- DUCK DUCK GOOOSE.......Venz took care of business, not as dominate as I thought it was going to be. Here is to wishing Rasheed a quick recovery from his "Venzitious" 19-6 PSU 197- The score was close but this match wasn't. Nickle is top dog for good reason. 22-6 PSU 285- Out matched. 25-6 PSU I wasn't expecting a win from this dual. PSU is just outstanding but I was hoping for a W at 141,165, 285 Nebraska is looking good tho. Here's to hoping to a Top 5 at Nationals and maybe a Champ or 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pennsyrules 209 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 I like homers and your predictions were pretty good but not seeing your Champ or 2 call? Unless Nolf gets hurt, you guys have little chance of even one in the finals. I did think Red wrestled pretty well and did not completely agree with the stalling calls(although TBar analyzed it better than me); Pa Boy Labriola showed he will be a force to reckon with in the near future(never had a doubt though that Hall would win it); don't think White will ever beat Joseph; and Venz didn't overly impress against an undersized opponent. I thought your 149 lbr competed well against Berge who was a blue chip prospect and think he will come along nicely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swoopdown 446 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 It's really a great idea to mandate the sick, injured or even overtrained to wrestle in order to grow the sport and serve our viewing pleasure. And what about medical red shirts ... ducking for an entire year is unconscionable. Take the example of knee injuries. What a crock. Did you hear Anthony Robles sniveling about wrestling on one leg? Hell no. Does a non-functioning ACL really inhibit performance? Anthony just sucked it up and got it done. Yanni got it done on a partial. Nolf's a wimp (he had good Gumby ACLs the whole time) because he ducked matches just to be fresh for NCAAs but proved one needs only one good leg later. Are you paying attention Stoll, you tinyass lightweight? Hurt an arm? Use the other one. Back a little sore? So is mine and I still have to shovel my driveway you snowflake prima donna whiners. And pay no attention to those old guys with metallic joints. They were weak to begin with and don't deserve our respect. Besides if you've watched the six million dollar man or RoboCop you know that artificial parts are performance enhancing so nothing to see here. Let's deduct team points if the team's #1 ducks! And in Shakur's case it's clear he has the acting skills to fake injury or illness. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157071669505719&id=77269230718 Do away with concussion protocol ... That really disrupts match pace. And injury time out, what viewer can endure these? I bet thousands of first time watching newbies walked out to the kitchen to make a sandwich and never returned because some nambie pambie needed a breather. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world because those guys never fake injuries. They know how to grow a sport! Lots of scoring and no injuries! Keep up the good work and thoughful discussion! God all us non-participants are tough. Is everyone from New Jersey? Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk 1 TBar1977 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Regulator 19 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 Husker, you made me second guess what I saw about the Red stall calls. But I just went back and watched it. 2 of the 3 stall calls were automatic because he dropped to a leg for the 5 count. Those aren’t debatable. The last one was a bit quick but Lee was standing for 5 seconds without an attempt to return. So that one could be debatable but I would be on the side of it’s within the normal standard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1032004 739 Report post Posted January 21, 2019 47 minutes ago, swoopdown said: It's really a great idea to mandate the sick, injured or even overtrained to wrestle in order to grow the sport and serve our viewing pleasure. And what about medical red shirts ... ducking for an entire year is unconscionable. Take the example of knee injuries. What a crock. Did you hear Anthony Robles sniveling about wrestling on one leg? Hell no. Does a non-functioning ACL really inhibit performance? Anthony just sucked it up and got it done. Yanni got it done on a partial. Nolf's a wimp (he had good Gumby ACLs the whole time) because he ducked matches just to be fresh for NCAAs but proved one needs only one good leg later. Are you paying attention Stoll, you tinyass lightweight? Hurt an arm? Use the other one. Back a little sore? So is mine and I still have to shovel my driveway you snowflake prima donna whiners. And pay no attention to those old guys with metallic joints. They were weak to begin with and don't deserve our respect. Besides if you've watched the six million dollar man or RoboCop you know that artificial parts are performance enhancing so nothing to see here. Let's deduct team points if the team's #1 ducks! And in Shakur's case it's clear he has the acting skills to fake injury or illness. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157071669505719&id=77269230718 Do away with concussion protocol ... That really disrupts match pace. And injury time out, what viewer can endure these? I bet thousands of first time watching newbies walked out to the kitchen to make a sandwich and never returned because some nambie pambie needed a breather. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world because those guys never fake injuries. They know how to grow a sport! Lots of scoring and no injuries! Keep up the good work and thoughful discussion! God all us non-participants are tough. Is everyone from New Jersey? Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk So you don’t think it was a duck? Lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
