Hands to the face

[gromit 402]

I was talking to an old teammate recently about the new emphasis on Hands_to_the_Face and was reminded of this Three Stooges level war from back in the day.  Under today's rules these two would've been DQ'd before they got outta the first period! 

Dustin Kilgore vs Logan Brown

 

[vsnej 173]

...when men were men

[Zebra 545]

2 minutes ago, vsnej said:

...when men were men

And the world breaks out in a rendition of this........

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8FTPv955I

 

 

[John Morgan 13]

Correct.  As would Zane R, Cael S, and tons of other wrestlers.  After having wrestled and coached most of my life...I keep trying to recall the emergency room visit resulting from H2F.

[RichB 122]

The rule is seventeen years late. The assaults on Jon Trenge's goggles speak for themselves.

[headshuck 1,926]

Shame if this silly rule spills over into India.

 

[Chrissn2001 78]

7 hours ago, gromit said:

I was talking to an old teammate recently about the new emphasis on Hands_to_the_Face and was reminded of this Three Stooges level war from back in the day.  Under today's rules these two would've been DQ'd before they got outta the first period! 

Dustin Kilgore vs Logan Brown

 

Flo would have a gold mine if they brought these guys, the official, and coaches back years later to watch the match and get their reactions to what was happening.  I'd call it, "Sorry, not sorry!"  Make it a whole series and get Caldwell/Metcalf, Bubba/Taylor, and more recently Fix/Suriano... 

Edited January 25 by Chrissn2001

[GoNotQuietly 707]

9 hours ago, John Morgan said:

Correct.  As would Zane R, Cael S, and tons of other wrestlers.  After having wrestled and coached most of my life...I keep trying to recall the emergency room visit resulting from H2F.

Well, I've been to the ER twice for a scratched cornea from "H2F", and it is undoubtedly one of the most painful injuries I had during my career.  Maybe that's why I'm a big fan of the new rule, but those two guys from the video have the option of MMA now if they want to stupidly slug eachother rather than wrestling...

[Sstern 34]

Agreed.  No need to be anywhere near the eyes.  Plus, international rules prohibit it.  We are getting better at freestyle.  Might as well start learning about hands to face in college.

[JBluegill133 229]

I still think there should be ongoing verbal reminders throughout the match "stay out of the face", a caution with match stoppage and another verbal warning, and then a point.  The problem is, one cannot reliably measure intent as in, "he was intending to poke in the eye" and decipher that from just an accident.

[Plasmodium 1,011]

Hands to the face?  What about hands in the face?  Watch Varner school Kilgore with this technique at about 6:50.  https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5519087-97kg-s-dustin-kilgore-sunkist-kids-wrestling-club-vs-jake-varner-nittany-lion-wcdustin-kilgore-jake-varnermp4

[ionel 621]

3 hours ago, JBluegill133 said:

I still think there should be ongoing verbal reminders throughout the match "stay out of the face", a caution with match stoppage and another verbal warning, and then a point.  The problem is, one cannot reliably measure intent as in, "he was intending to poke in the eye" and decipher that from just an accident.

So do you feel the same regarding targeting and hands to helmet etc. in football?  The refs should just be warning the players, perhaps till all 11 have been warned and then actually call a penalty.

The way I understand the rule one doesn't need to consider intent (same as face mask, hands to the helmet and targeting in football), hands to the face is well defined and should be easy to see.  Just like with helmet to helmet contact the athletes will learn and adjust/change/eliminate the contact.  

[JBluegill133 229]

5 hours ago, ionel said:

So do you feel the same regarding targeting and hands to helmet etc. in football?  The refs should just be warning the players, perhaps till all 11 have been warned and then actually call a penalty.

The way I understand the rule one doesn't need to consider intent (same as face mask, hands to the helmet and targeting in football), hands to the face is well defined and should be easy to see.  Just like with helmet to helmet contact the athletes will learn and adjust/change/eliminate the contact.  

I was under the impression that the reason why this was a point of emphasis was because hands to the face was being used as a tactic to disrupt the opponents vision in order to gain an advantage prior to takedown or defending a takedown....that's why when it is viewed as an obvious accident people get really upset about it....and that's where the warnings come in...first time, yea..it may or may not be an accident...2nd time eh we will still give you the benefit of the doubt...3+ now we can reasonably assume this was done on purpose.

 

I cannot hit on the football stuff because I am really not familiar with the rules.  Sorry! 

[ionel 621]

2 minutes ago, JBluegill133 said:

I was under the impression that the reason why this was a point of emphasis was because hands to the face was being used as a tactic to disrupt the opponents vision in order to gain an advantage prior to takedown or defending a takedown....that's why when it is viewed as an obvious accident people get really upset about it....and that's where the warnings come in...first time, yea..it may or may not be an accident...2nd time eh we will still give you the benefit of the doubt...3+ now we can reasonably assume this was done on purpose.

 

I cannot hit on the football stuff because I am really not familiar with the rules.  Sorry! 

You aren't familiar with the concusion issues in soorts?

Edited January 25 by ionel

[BadgerMon 114]

For that matter, forehead stumping isn't cool, either

 

[JBluegill133 229]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

You aren't familiar with the concusion issues in soorts?

Sorry re-read your post yes the helmet to helmet contact/concussion and the facemask part of your post totally makes sense regarding intent....I am unfamiliar with the hands to the face you mentioned.  Is that with linemen?  

[ionel 621]

5 minutes ago, JBluegill133 said:

Sorry re-read your post yes the helmet to helmet contact/concussion and the facemask part of your post totally makes sense regarding intent....I am unfamiliar with the hands to the face you mentioned.  Is that with linemen?  

I'm not sure all specifics, believe running with the ball can still stiff arm, but pretty sure any other hands to the facemask/helmet is penalized.  May not have all been same reason but seems to me the new wrestling rule is consistent with other sports.

Edited January 25 by ionel

[KTG119 771]

tOSU Michigan dual. Pantaleo posted on the face at one point for like 5 seconds and nothing called. Next match Romero taps Massa around the haircline (and that’s a little high there on young Mr Massa) and got hit. 

[John Morgan 13]

On 1/24/2019 at 10:03 PM, GoNotQuietly said:

Well, I've been to the ER twice for a scratched cornea from "H2F", and it is undoubtedly one of the most painful injuries I had during my career.  Maybe that's why I'm a big fan of the new rule, but those two guys from the video have the option of MMA now if they want to stupidly slug eachother rather than wrestling...

Yes, clarification in order...the Kilgore/Brown video demonstrates unnecessary roughness (initiated by brown) and should have been called as such.  The ref let that match get out of hand.  However, those were not examples of a "head post" but more of a jabs.  Of course, eye pokes have always been illegal and should be called.  I think posting on the forehead (palm to eyebrows or above so fingers are above the eyes) should be ok.  Also, a quick pop to the face with an open hand, level change and double is ok too.  The unnecessary roughness rule applies here as well.