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Jimmy Cinnabon

If Spencer is sick why did he wrestle 48 hours ago?

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I have no problem with Brands holding Young or Lee out.  Both are ranked behind (not ahead) of the Northwestern guys.   But it is annoying how much ducking talk goes on by Iowa fans and then this happens and it is okay. 

Edited by buf87

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1 hour ago, jammen said:

You left out the best part "There is no explanation, it's just a decision we made."

I thought the only person that could get away with an answer like that is a politician.  Oh well.  Brands is now orange on multiple levels.

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5 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

I thought the only person that could get away with an answer like that is a politician.  Oh well.  Brands is now orange on multiple levels.

He still refuses to return the home dual favor Sanderson gave him several years back. At this point Brands has more levels of Orange than Tropicana. 

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I don’t post too often anymore and don’t follow college wrestling as consistently as in years past but what is the point in accusing Brands/Lee of ducking? Usually this time of year when people are accused of ducking, its to protect seeds at conference tournaments or the big show. If the regular season ended today, Lee would be the #2 seed to the NW kid. So unless something is wrong with Lee, wouldn’t it make more sense for him to have actually wrestled to try and get the #1 seed back? So Lee might actually be battling or recovering from something and they are using him sparingly and keeping him out of matches that will cause him to use a lot of his gas tank as he might not be in peak condition yet. Nobody knows.

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Harder to overcome two losses if he did beat Rivera at BigTens. Now with only one loss, he would be seeded ahead at NCAAs. That why this was done. Aside from that, Young sat out after wrestling Friday simply to avoid another loss that would lower his winning percentage, a factor in seeding.

Iowa fans can rationalize all they want but when you cherry pick the schedule and only have your guys wrestle those they can beat, that's ducking, period, end of discussion. Brands has now done this with multiple wrestlers, multiple times. It's becoming systematic and other coaches are not doing this to anywhere near the degree Iowa is.

As far as Lee's health, I'm sure the only way many Iowa fans will say he is back to 100% is IF he beat Rivera and wins an NCAA Championship. It's obvious there is no way they will admit this prior to the matchup and risk a loss with no excuse. Heck, he just destroyed the #12 wrestler in the country on Friday, yet he incapable of going on Sunday against Rivera, please!

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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2 hours ago, tec87 said:

I don’t post too often anymore and don’t follow college wrestling as consistently as in years past but what is the point in accusing Brands/Lee of ducking? Usually this time of year when people are accused of ducking, its to protect seeds at conference tournaments or the big show. If the regular season ended today, Lee would be the #2 seed to the NW kid. So unless something is wrong with Lee, wouldn’t it make more sense for him to have actually wrestled to try and get the #1 seed back? So Lee might actually be battling or recovering from something and they are using him sparingly and keeping him out of matches that will cause him to use a lot of his gas tank as he might not be in peak condition yet. Nobody knows.

I believe Brands said there was literally no reason for keeping Lee out of the lineup. Are you calling him a liar?

Edited by Katie

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21 hours ago, cornercoach said:

..........Coach Brands gave a good interview on Flo regarding this topic. Honest and logical. Heartfelt and in the best interest of Iowa athletes. No need to bash the guy ...........

I'm out - actually have to do some work today - but I think this is about as definitive as possible.  The italicized, parenthetical references are mine: 

 “This is an important time of the year to build and create momentum (Pick up wins, avoid losses) and put yourself in the best possible position for rankings (Quack, quack, quack) and those types of things".

Over and out - moving on to this week's Kolo vs. Ash match.  Interestingly Ayres has committed to the bout.  No twitter word from Goodale as yet.   I'll be in Row 10, God willing. 

Edited by TFBJR

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48 minutes ago, Katie said:

I believe Brands said there was literally no reason for keeping Lee out of the lineup. Are you calling him a liar?

Actually, I think he meant he didn't have to give an explanation other than it was a decision they made.

In other words, MYOFB!

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8 hours ago, Flying-Tiger said:

Harder to overcome two losses if he did beat Rivera at BigTens. Now with only one loss, he would be seeded ahead at NCAAs. That why this was done. Aside from that, Young sat out after wrestling Friday simply to avoid another loss that would lower his winning percentage, a factor in seeding.

Iowa fans can rationalize all they want but when you cherry pick the schedule and only have your guys wrestle those they can beat, that's ducking, period, end of discussion. Brands has now done this with multiple wrestlers, multiple times. It's becoming systematic and other coaches are not doing this to anywhere near the degree Iowa is.

As far as Lee's health, I'm sure the only way many Iowa fans will say he is back to 100% is IF he beat Rivera and wins an NCAA Championship. It's obvious there is no way they will admit this prior to the matchup and risk a loss with no excuse. Heck, he just destroyed the #12 wrestler in the country on Friday, yet he incapable of going on Sunday against Rivera, please!

Yes Lee could have wrestled and likely would have lost. Yes Iowa ducked Rivera for that reason. However if you watch the Illinois match from Friday, Piotrowski got to Spencer's legs several times and Lee looked very sluggish. So even though he pinned him he certainly didn't look like himself. I've been watching Spencer for 6 years. No way a 100% Lee or even a 75% Lee lets that kid near his legs. Lastly, Spencer has not wrestled more than one time in a week since Midlands.

Edited by Erminio8

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5 hours ago, Erminio8 said:

Yes Lee could have wrestled and likely would have lost. Yes Iowa ducked Rivera for that reason. However if you watch the Illinois match from Friday, Piotrowski got to Spencer's legs several times and Lee looked very sluggish. So even though he pinned him he certainly didn't look like himself. I've been watching Spencer for 6 years. No way a 100% Lee or even a 75% Lee lets that kid near his legs. Lastly, Spencer has not wrestled more than one time in a week since Midlands.

Prior to the Northwestern dual Iowa has wrestled only 1 dual per week with the exception of the season opener tri-match so saying Spencer has not wrestled more than one time in a week as an argument is a bit misleading. 

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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On 1/27/2019 at 7:35 PM, Ts40 said:

Coaches’ decision and part of the plan?   Completely disrespectful to those who traveled and bot tkts.  Especially when it is only announced just prior to the match. And on another forum I believe someone said that Lee was actually warming up Perez Perez.  Is this actually true?  

That's hilarious, someone feeling disrespected because Brands changed his starting line-up.  

Edited by stp

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One thing that hasn’t been mentioned with all this talk of ducking: aside from ego, there is no meaningful difference between the number one and two seed at 125 this year. Really  

Look at the guys below Lee and Rivera: Numbers 3,4,5,6 and 7 (wrestlestat) are Mueller, Picc, Bresser, Foley and Arujau. They have three losses between them as of now and NONE are in the Big Ten. Mueller and Picc are undefeated, Bresser has one loss (to Rivera in SV), Foley has one loss (to Picc, 4-1) and Arujau has one loss to his teammate from Cornell. Number eight is Glory who has three losses. Two are to Lee and one to Picc.

Let’s assume Lee beats Picc again (otherwise his seed most likely goes to no better than three). So seeds 3,4,5,6 come from the group Mueller, Arujau, Bresser, Picc and someone else from the top ten. It all depends on what happens from now to NCAAs. If Lee beats Picc and Mueller remains undefeated then Mueller gets third seed and Picc fourth. So why would Lee care whether he’s second or first seed? If Lee loses to Picc then he’s third or fourth seed. Again, how does this make a difference?

 

, , Glory, Russell and McGee. 

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10 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Prior to the Northwestern dual Iowa has wrestled only 1 dual per week with the exception of the season opener tri-match so saying Spencer has not wrestled more than one time in a week as an argument is a bit misleading. 

But it's still an important factor. There is no precedent of him wrestling more than once. If he had wrestled twice in a previous weekend and then chose not to wrestle twice this particular weekend then it would look a lot worse. I'm also not saying they didn't duck Rivera. I'm just pointing out a factor that I hadn't seen anyone else mention.

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44 minutes ago, Erminio8 said:

But it's still an important factor. There is no precedent of him wrestling more than once. If he had wrestled twice in a previous weekend and then chose not to wrestle twice this particular weekend then it would look a lot worse. I'm also not saying they didn't duck Rivera. I'm just pointing out a factor that I hadn't seen anyone else mention.

Yes but it was also impossible for him to wrestle "more than once in a week" since the schedule did not allow for it, so you cant use that as evidence one way or the other. Also there is precedent for him wrestling all events scheduled since midlands up until the NW dual.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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1 minute ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Yes but it was also impossible for him to wrestle "more than once in a week" since the schedule did not allow for it and there is precedent for him wrestling all events scheduled since midlands up until the NW dual.

I know what you're saying and I'm not trying to argue. I'm just saying perhaps their plan all along was to only wrestle him once per week the rest of the season and this just happened to be the first week they had 2 duals. Maybe if it was Illinois and Wisconsin instead of Illinois and Northwestern he would've rested v Wisconsin and nobody would be making a huge deal over it. It's a possibility.

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1 minute ago, Erminio8 said:

I know what you're saying and I'm not trying to argue. I'm just saying perhaps their plan all along was to only wrestle him once per week the rest of the season and this just happened to be the first week they had 2 duals. Maybe if it was Illinois and Wisconsin instead of Illinois and Northwestern he would've rested v Wisconsin and nobody would be making a huge deal over it. It's a possibility.

I think the issue is that it was a match vs the number 1 ranked guy who beat Lee a few weeks earlier. The timing is awfully convenient to have Lee rest, but yes its a possibility that it was always the plan all along to have Lee wrestle only once a week. Sounds a little far fetched but it could have always been the plan as well.

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9 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I think the issue is that it was a match vs the number 1 ranked guy who beat Lee a few weeks earlier. The timing is awfully convenient to have Lee rest, but yes its a possibility that it was always the plan all along to have Lee wrestle only once a week. Sounds a little far fetched but it could have always been the plan as well.

Also another possibility, since this was Lee's first opportunity to wrestle twice in one weekend since Midlands, maybe their plan was to wrestle both matches but they didn't like how he was feeling after wrestling Friday night and decided it wasn't worth pushing it against a guy who would definitely force him to wrestle all 3 periods.

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2 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned with all this talk of ducking: aside from ego, there is no meaningful difference between the number one and two seed at 125 this year. Really  

Look at the guys below Lee and Rivera: Numbers 3,4,5,6 and 7 (wrestlestat) are Mueller, Picc, Bresser, Foley and Arujau. They have three losses between them as of now and NONE are in the Big Ten. Mueller and Picc are undefeated, Bresser has one loss (to Rivera in SV), Foley has one loss (to Picc, 4-1) and Arujau has one loss to his teammate from Cornell. Number eight is Glory who has three losses. Two are to Lee and one to Picc.

Let’s assume Lee beats Picc again (otherwise his seed most likely goes to no better than three). So seeds 3,4,5,6 come from the group Mueller, Arujau, Bresser, Picc and someone else from the top ten. It all depends on what happens from now to NCAAs. If Lee beats Picc and Mueller remains undefeated then Mueller gets third seed and Picc fourth. So why would Lee care whether he’s second or first seed? If Lee loses to Picc then he’s third or fourth seed. Again, how does this make a difference?

 

, , Glory, Russell and McGee. 

Yup, you're right.  I'm assuming Spencer Lee's goal is another NCAA Championship. He still has to beat everyone in front of him regardless of his seed. If he is 100%, I think he can do that,  just not as easy as last year.

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2 minutes ago, Erminio8 said:

Also another possibility, since this was Lee's first opportunity to wrestle twice in one weekend since Midlands, maybe their plan was to wrestle both matches but they didn't like how he was feeling after wrestling Friday night and decided it wasn't worth pushing it against a guy who would definitely force him to wrestle all 3 periods.

I think this is the most reasonable possibly out there justifying Lee sitting.

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29 minutes ago, Erminio8 said:

Also another possibility, since this was Lee's first opportunity to wrestle twice in one weekend since Midlands, maybe their plan was to wrestle both matches but they didn't like how he was feeling after wrestling Friday night and decided it wasn't worth pushing it against a guy who would definitely force him to wrestle all 3 periods.

So Spencer can't wrestler 14 minutes over a 42 hour span but I'm guessing he practiced all week and from what I hear he warmed Perez up before the match. I wouldn't buy that from anyone on the Iowa staff that would try and sell it to me.

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13 minutes ago, unbiased said:

So Spencer can't wrestler 14 minutes over a 42 hour span but I'm guessing he practiced all week and from what I hear he warmed Perez up before the match. I wouldn't buy that from anyone on the Iowa staff that would try and sell it to me.

And since it is just a guess maybe you should keep your comments to yourself.  You have no idea what goes on in that room and you also have no idea what Lee might be going through.  

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9 minutes ago, BHawk91 said:

And since it is just a guess maybe you should keep your comments to yourself.  You have no idea what goes on in that room and you also have no idea what Lee might be going through.  

I think we all know that Spencer Lee pinned Piotrowski just two days before the NW dual. If there is more to Lee's situation why don't you tell us.

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