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Gable Stevenson will go down as the greatest college wrestler ever

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The closest comparison to Gable's start in collegiate wrestling as a heavyweight was probably Steve Mocco.  Yes, Steve had Tommy Rowlands to face, and came in second to him at nationals his first year, but for the next few years was pretty solidly at the top of his class.

In his last year, however, Cole Conrad had him figured out, and Mocco never beat him again.  It's simply too early to tell how things will work out among competitors.

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10 hours ago, jeffrideal said:

But IMar was not the phenom that Gable was coming into college.  He was very good but not great.  Remember he got worked by BoJo in HS a few times.  IMar never won a world title, much less multiple ones.  So the comparison is not a good one.  Gable is a phenom and his current trajectory is pointing to a 4 X'r.  However, Hwt is going to be the best it has been in the next few years. 

From the angle of expectations I agree. Gable came to high school with insanely good credentials. IMart was a 3x CA state champ but no one was predicting he’d be a GOAT. On the other hand, after his freshman year he seemed about as much of a shoe-in to be a 4x-er as could be and I don’t know anyone who would have predicted that Joseph would be the one to stand in his way. 

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Regarding Gable, i think he has a really good shot of dismantling the competition four years running. What makes him stand out relative to all the other highly credentialed freshman of the past is his elevated athletic gifts both on an absolute level and relative to the competition at heavyweight. And he never skipped a grade and didn’t spend his senior year at the OTC. Yes he trained with some excellent people in high school at times but it wasn’t like he had a year of college level room work under his belt. 

As for losses to Coon and Nelson this past fall. He was in high school. High school. Historically people take losses two years into college that they completely turn around a few years later. His high school losses mean little as for who he will be able to beat. Only a few greats ever wrestled at the highest levels as high schoolers. As an example look at Taylor’s utter destruction of Zahid his redshirt frosh year and compare to his match with Dake at Final X. Yes he lost. But to the world champ who destroyed everyone e internationally. 

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12 hours ago, dmm53 said:

You are not necessarily wrong but you are not necessarily right either.   It is neither verifiable or falsifiable at this time. 

It is pure speculation right now and in order to be considered, he will minimally have to (a) win four titles and (b)  go undefeated over that time and (c) a have a very high bonus rate.  Having (d) three or more Hodge trophies will help the case. 

That is a tall order indeed. 

The conversation probably shouldn't even start until he wins two titles as an undefeated 285 pounder.

My sense is that if you truly believe your claim, you will be able to get some folks to bet against you that the above requirements won't happen.  That will make your claim more interesting.

"Greatest college wrestler" will still even be debatable if he somehow manages to match Sanderson's accomplishments.  A long shot for sure. 

The odds of all that happening are .... what?  Maybe 20% tops at this point in his career?

If he gets some World/Olympic hardware while still in college that will be a good argument to put him above Cael as long as he gets items  a & b on your list.  If he does win World or Olympic gold while still NCAA eligible he will face the same choice Snyder did about continuing to maintain NCAA eligibility.  It will be fun following this young mans progress over the next few years.

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47 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Stoll is going to beat him and this thread will be moot.

 

He might beat Steveson the first time they wrestle, but I doubt it. Steveson is way faster than Stoll.

Edited by TobusRex

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Cael is the best college wrestler ever.  The list of guys he beat badly is unreal when you go back and look at his record.  

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/stories/2002-03-20-cover-table.htm

See for yourself.  Several World medalists on his resume (Cormier, Vering, Ruiz, Eggum) as well as other World and Olympic team members (Hrovat, Fullhart).  In fact, it was basically the golden age of 184-197.  That's not even to mention other complete monsters like Trenge, Hahn, Munoz, etc.   

For as good as current guys like Retherford, Nolf, and Nickal are, their competition is nowhere near what Cael faced.  I've posted about this before and feel as though I'm repeating myself.  

/thread

 

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23 minutes ago, Frank_Rizzo said:

Cael is the best college wrestler ever.  The list of guys he beat badly is unreal when you go back and look at his record.  

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/stories/2002-03-20-cover-table.htm

See for yourself.  Several World medalists on his resume (Cormier, Vering, Ruiz, Eggum) as well as other World and Olympic team members (Hrovat, Fullhart).  In fact, it was basically the golden age of 184-197.  That's not even to mention other complete monsters like Trenge, Hahn, Munoz, etc.   

For as good as current guys like Retherford, Nolf, and Nickal are, their competition is nowhere near what Cael faced.  I've posted about this before and feel as though I'm repeating myself.  

/thread

 

The thread is about Steveson, not Retherford, Nolf, or Nickal.  

If he goes undefeated for four years, by the time he's done he will have had to have beaten guys like Parris, Kerkvliet, Schultz, Cassioppi, etc., many times.  Not to mention he might make World and Olympic teams while in college, something Cael was never able to do.  

Which is more impressive--beating guys in college that go on years later to win world medals, or making a world team and winning a medal yourself?

And I'm not making the "Snyder > Cael" argument.  Cael is clearly a better folkstyle wrestler than Snyder.  But Steveson doesn't have the same holes in his folkstyle game that Snyder had.  He's strong in all three positions.  

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15 hours ago, CoachWrestling said:

Convince me I’m wrong

First reason I'd say you are wrong is because you probably don't even know who is on the list.

But, if before his 3rd year of college he is an undefeated 2x NCAA champ and has won a men's Olympic gold in wrestling then come back and talk to us cause he's half way there.  Till then its just a silly thread.

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54 minutes ago, Frank_Rizzo said:

Cael is the best college wrestler ever.  The list of guys he beat badly is unreal when you go back and look at his record.  

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/stories/2002-03-20-cover-table.htm

See for yourself.  Several World medalists on his resume (Cormier, Vering, Ruiz, Eggum) as well as other World and Olympic team members (Hrovat, Fullhart).  In fact, it was basically the golden age of 184-197.  That's not even to mention other complete monsters like Trenge, Hahn, Munoz, etc.   

For as good as current guys like Retherford, Nolf, and Nickal are, their competition is nowhere near what Cael faced.  I've posted about this before and feel as though I'm repeating myself.  

/thread

 

 

True enough, but Cael DID redshirt, and he took a loss in his RS season. Does that loss count? Not officially, obviously.

I agree Cael is, quite easily, the best D1 wrestler at least of the last 50 years. However to disregard guys like Dan Hodge, who was ALSO unbeaten over his career (albeit with about  90 fewer matches) and who pinned nearly everybody he wrestled, seems rather shortsighted. I think there is little doubt Hodge would've been a 4 timer if FR were allowed to wrestle varsity at the time.

Edited by TobusRex

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The crazy thing is EVEN IF Gable can be a 4x national champ AND be undefeated...he won't pass Cael unless he does so in a more dominant fashion, which would basically mean he has to tech fall/pin at least 50% of his remaining career matches.

So far he's only at 9/24 (38%) techs and pins in his career, which isn't good enough to pass Cael.

The good news is that falls occur with greater frequency at HWT.  The bad news is that Gable isn't really much of a pinner, yet.

Edited by Jimmy Cinnabon

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I didn't read the entire thread, but I see him like a Shaq, Wilt, or Hakeem.  Sorry to bring basketball into this, but these guys are rarely considered to be the greatest in that sport because of the position they played. Heavyweights have that same perception from many of us.  Many of us leave the gym when these guys start wrestling.  However, he doesn't wrestle like a typical heavyweight, so maybe he has a chance...

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