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Jimmy Cinnabon

Is Jason Nolf overrated?

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Just now, TobusRex said:

That's quite a reach. Kemp was fantastic, but wrestling was fundamentally different back then. Dake reminded me a lot of Kemp, super strong defense + just enough offense.

A ref’s decision away (when he scored the only TD in the match) from 4Xer with no redshirt.  Hardly a reach.  Plus add in his freestyle resume.

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1 minute ago, TobusRex said:

Not me :D I thought Dake would win. Taylor was a lot more fun to watch though, and a fantastic wrestler.

The ironic thing is that while Dake was content to win By a point or two in college he completely blows people out in freestyle And is almost an automatic tech fall against everyone- Competing against much higher level guys. Now he’s an absolute joy to watch- whereas in college it was often painful.

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8 minutes ago, jchapman said:

A ref’s decision away (when he scored the only TD in the match) from 4Xer with no redshirt.  Hardly a reach.  Plus add in his freestyle resume.

 

Kemp is an alltime great. I just wonder how his "style" of wrestling would work out today against top guys.

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30 minutes ago, Wagonhound said:

I think the only real knock on Nolf is lack of competition over the last three years. Kinda reminds me of Askren after Pendleton left and he only had Herbert. Except Nolf doesn’t have a Herbert. 

Which is a shame because it would be great to see how he would match up with Dake or Taylor in college at that weight. 

No doubt one of the all time greats though. Probably one of the slickest I’ve ever seen.

yeah, but is that actually the case at all? How do we know that 157 isn't tougher than it's ever been,  but Nolf is just so dominant he'd have done it in any other era as well? For example you mention when Pendleton left and Askren only had Herbert. Herbert is a 2X NCAA champ, 3 X finalist, and a 4 time AA. That's a pretty tough "only".  Plus Herbert was pretty dominant as a champion in his own right: once ASKREN left :D

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5 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

yeah, but is that actually the case at all? How do we know that 157 isn't tougher than it's ever been,  but Nolf is just so dominant he'd have done it in any other era as well? For example you mention when Pendleton left and Askren only had Herbert. Herbert is a 2X NCAA champ, 3 X finalist, and a 4 time AA. That's a pretty tough "only".  Plus Herbert was pretty dominant as a champion in his own right: once ASKREN left :D

True. I just don’t see Nolfs competition these last few years in the same way as some of the other greats. Outside of Imar, has he wrestled any other Greats? 

I don’t think 57 is the toughest it’s ever been. When Bubba pinned DT was that 57? Who else was in that bracket?

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Nolf has wins over IMar (pin), Berger (4 times: tech, 2 majors, decision),  Deakin (major), Hidlay, Jordan (tech), Pantaleo, Kemerer (3 times), Lavallee, Joe Smith (3 times: tech, major, decision), among others like Brascetta, Chad Walsh (multiple times), Brian Murphy, Crone, Short, Finesilver, Minnotti, and Paul Fox.  (Also wins over Gantt and Realbuto his redshirt freshman year).

Other than a one point loss and a TB one point loss to IMar, no one has really come close to beating him.

He has a bonus rate of nearly 90% and pinned 53 percent of everyone he has wrestled: 56 pins, 24 techs, 14 majors so far and counting

Will most likely finish his college career going 2-1-1-1.

He's been an example of near total dominance.  And his creativity and innovation on the mat are perhaps only rivaled in college history by the likes of a few others: e.g., Ben Askren and Wade Schalles

Not too shabby and, no he isn't over-rated unless you are comparing him to the gods wrestling on Mount Olympus.  And even there, he would probably hold his own.

Related image

 

Edited by dmm53

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Has anyone ever made the claim that Nolf is top 5 all time? Or even top 10? Don’t think he’s there yet, but yes he is incredible and no I don’t think he’s overrated. However I will admit that 157 hasn’t exactly been as deep as it has been in the past. 

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3 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

Has anyone ever made the claim that Nolf is top 5 all time? Or even top 10? Don’t think he’s there yet, but yes he is incredible and no I don’t think he’s overrated. However I will admit that 157 hasn’t exactly been as deep as it has been in the past. 

He's a special wrestler. Top 5 or top 10 all time? I don't know. Maybe. Hell, he might be the greatest college wrestler of all time. I think he's probably as dominant or maybe even MORE dominant than Cael was. 90% bonus rate over 4 years is unbelievable. And the vast majority of those are pins/techs.

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On 1/31/2019 at 11:18 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

No doubt he is an amazing wrestler.  Aggressive, creative, daring...loads of fun to watch, even for the most casual fan.

However, at best, he can only be a 3x champ and has taken multiple losses in his career (albeit to another great in IMar).  He also is not an accomplished freestyler and it is TBD if he can develop in that discipline.

As far as a wrestler he would not be in the top 5 all time greatest (e.g. in no particular order I think Cael, Dake, John Smith, DT, Uetake would all be above him).

So the question is...is Jason Nolf very very good, but overrated?

thats your top 5?  want to try again?

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8 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

First off, who rated Nolf that you think he’s overrated?

Second, here’s a list of 157 pounders who would have given Nolf a run for his money 

Wade Schalles

Lee Kemp

Dave Schultz 

Pat Smith

Joe Williams

Jordam Burroughs 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is Kyle Dake an omission or you’re just not giving him a chance? 

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27 minutes ago, portajohn said:

Only thing overrated about Nolf are his moves & technique.  

LOL....well I certainly don't think they are overrated. I certainly never had technique like that. I never even heard of the "Winn-Dixie" until I saw Nolf do it, and I still watch it and go "wooooooooaaaahhhhhhh".

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I don't think we can really judge "the GREATEST" based on how many titles they won in college. Consider: nobody would think of a 1 time NCAA champ as the GOAT, but maybe in his last NCAA tourney that kid reached a level of skill/technique that no other NCAA wrestler has ever reached.

Regarding 4x champs vs 3x champs vs 2x, etc, not all wrestlers had an opportunity to win 4 NCAA titles. Freshmen were forbidden from wrestling for decades. Hence greats like Hodge and Uetake, although both undefeated and dominant, never won a 4th title. Plus, Pat Smith was the first 4X champ. But did he ever wrestle anybody on par with Kyle Dake? Or David Taylor? Did Kyle Dake ever wrestle anybody like Lee Kemp?

This is all just conjecture. Nolf is the most dominant wrestler I've ever seen. He destroys anything and everybody that steps on the mat with him. Nolf won't have 4 NCAA titles when he's gone, he'll probably have 3. But this last year is the most dominant I've seen from a wrestler in my limited experience watching college wrestlers.

Over the course of his entire career, Cael seems pretty obviously the greatest college wrestler. He was dominant all 4 years, and improved each year. But over the course of 1 SEASON there are a few who might surpass Cael: Zain, Nolf, Nickal come to mind immediately. Dake was dominant, but he wasn't a bonus point guy so that hurts him in a lot of guys eyes.

Edited by TobusRex

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5 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

LOL....well I certainly don't think they are overrated. I certainly never had technique like that. I never even heard of the "Winn-Dixie" until I saw Nolf do it, and I still watch it and go "wooooooooaaaahhhhhhh".

I was there the first time Nolf executed that move.  It was at the grange fair and he burst into my stall after eating a bad corndog.  Lets just say his technique was a mess.

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10 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

First off, who rated Nolf that you think he’s overrated?

Second, here’s a list of 157 pounders who would have given Nolf a run for his money 

Wade Schalles

Lee Kemp

Dave Schultz 

Pat Smith

Joe Williams

Jordam Burroughs 

Agree with your thoughts except these guys would beat him.  Others would give him a run for his money.  Without spending much time on it Ryan Bertin comes to mind.

the troll job is the post infers DT had a better college career than Logie  Bear and a few others.  Not close.  I am a fan of DT but others may have been better in college.

As to Nolf, he suffers from comp running from him.  The last two years he just doesn’t have those big wins.  I think he is fantastic.

 

10 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

 

 

 

 

 

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