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Jimmy Cinnabon

Why do people hate Cael?

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Despite all his success as a competitor and coach, the guy is incredibly humble.  He doesn't showboat -- heck, you hardly ever see him crack a smile.

Reasons I can think of:

1. You hate him because you are a ISU fan and you are angry he left your team for PSU.

2. You hate him because of the success he has brought to Penn State.

3. You hate bald Mormons.

Am I missing anything?

Edited by Jimmy Cinnabon

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9 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Despite all his success as a competitor and coach, the guy is incredibly humble.  He doesn't showboat -- heck, you hardly ever see him crack a smile.

Reasons I can think of:

1. You hate him because you are a ISU fan and you are angry he left your team for PSU.

2. You hate him because of the success he has brought to Penn State.

3. You hate bald Mormons.

Am I missing anything?

4. cause his name sounds like kale, and no one likes kale

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Probably the same reason most people hate the Brands brothers, because of the fans.  I don’t hate Cael so to speak but he has literally done everything “wrong” the Brands brothers have done with none of the consequences, all because of the eyes of his fans.

 

Brands was scolded for leaving VT

Brands was scolded for keeping Marion

Brands has been punished by the fans for keeping his wrestlers out against top competition

Brands has been scolded for not wanting to wrestle VT

When Clark won the championship Brands was scolded for having Clark throw him (even though that is very common in the international market)

 

Cael left his school for a better job and it was his damn Alma Marter

Cael kept Long

Cael has kept his wrestlers out of the line-up

Cael won’t touch ISU

When Bo won his title Cael held out his arms for Bo to jump into them

 

When Brands does something wrong, it is completely inexcusable according to PSU fans but when Cael does the exact same thing, we will just turn our heads like nothing happened.

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1 minute ago, kgschalhoub said:

Same reason people not in New England dislilke Belichick and Brady.

Well, jealousy of success is definitely a big part of it.  But they have the whole cheating scandal thing.  Something that Cael doesn't have.

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1 minute ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Well, jealousy of success is definitely a big part of it.  But they have the whole cheating scandal thing.  Something that Cael doesn't have.

well except for the fact that he is cheating, so thus according to you then sorta is the same 

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6 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Well, jealousy of success is definitely a big part of it.  But they have the whole cheating scandal thing.  Something that Cael doesn't have.

Yes, the New England cheating scandal is part of it, but it really is the fact that they seem to get to the SB every year and part of that is because they play in a dog meat division. The only people who like dynasties are the fans of that team.

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31 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Fair, except that last point...holding your arms out to hug someone when they win is a pretty natural and common reaction.

Brands' "throw me throw me throw me throw me" was not.

Having someone throw is not the most common but that doesn't make it wrong. Holding your arms out is just as much a celebration as someone throwing you.  I don't mind either of them as I feel the wrestler and coach should be able to celebrate as they see fit for accomplishing one of the hardest things to do, win an NCAA wrestling crown.

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12 minutes ago, BHawk91 said:

Having someone throw is not the most common but that doesn't make it wrong. Holding your arms out is just as much a celebration as someone throwing you.  I don't mind either of them as I feel the wrestler and coach should be able to celebrate as they see fit for accomplishing one of the hardest things to do, win an NCAA wrestling crown.

Literally every coach, at every level, hugs his wrestler when they win a big match.  In no way is holding your arms out for a hug the same level of orchestrated celebration as "throw me, throw me, throw me".

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I don't think anyone hates or even dislikes Cael.  I think the way some of the PSU fans jump on anyone who disagrees with the way Cael/PSU handles certain things is more of the culprit.

I know of very long time PSU fans who are outright embarrassed with some of the "new" fans.

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Maybe no one consciously dislikes Sanderson for this reason but it might be a subconscious factor: namely, that he was "perfect" in college: 159-0 with 4 titles. 

And he doesn't tend to draw attention to himself or his own achievements.  He appears serenely aloof and even sublimely detached in a more- or other-than-human way at times. 

It is hard for most of us to relate in a personal way to perfection.  You can't top it.  It is near-impossible to achieve or emulate.  It is in some sense "inhuman". And, while his tenure as coach at PSU clearly has not been perfect, it certainly has been extremely dominant and arguably without scandal or large doses and displays of ego.  

Some folks liked to dislike Iowa when they thoroughly ruled the sport for years. And maybe Oklahoma State before that.  These teams were "the Yankees" of wrestling,.  But now that torch is carried by Penn State  . . . at least for the time being.

I suspect there is frequently  a desire or to see giants fail or fall  . . . or be felled: celebrities, the rich, the powerful, the successful.  Cosmic "justice" almost demands it; poetic justice wants it. 

And, who knows, there might even be a hidden longing for disaster and the drama or intensity that comes with all that—a wish for the ruination of others, the possibility that one's own team can then ascend, and sometimes the delicious or seditious enjoyment in this suffering of others (schadenfreude).   

Isn't in fact there another thread currently on The Mat called "PSU - How the Dynasty Will End".  (What's that remark by Yogi Berra or maybe Neils Bohr: something like "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future"?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqovm-Io2D0

 

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1 hour ago, BHawk91 said:

Probably the same reason most people hate the Brands brothers, because of the fans.  I don’t hate Cael so to speak but he has literally done everything “wrong” the Brands brothers have done with none of the consequences, all because of the eyes of his fans.

 

Brands was scolded for leaving VT

Brands was scolded for keeping Marion

Brands has been punished by the fans for keeping his wrestlers out against top competition

Brands has been scolded for not wanting to wrestle VT

When Clark won the championship Brands was scolded for having Clark throw him (even though that is very common in the international market)

 

Cael left his school for a better job and it was his damn Alma Marter

Cael kept Long

Cael has kept his wrestlers out of the line-up

Cael won’t touch ISU

When Bo won his title Cael held out his arms for Bo to jump into them

 

When Brands does something wrong, it is completely inexcusable according to PSU fans but when Cael does the exact same thing, we will just turn our heads like nothing happened.

1. Brands wasn't scolded for leaving VT. He was scolded for leaving VT after giving a verbal commitment that he was going to be there for the long haul AND taking along with him 5 recruits that used a lot of program resources. Cael tried to leave ISU 3 years earlier and ISU did everything they could to get him to stay. He had already expressed interest in leaving the program. Cael left ISU and his brother and DT (who had not yet graduated HS) followed. ISU was left with 3 NCAA Finals (2 Champs and 1 Runner Up) and a 3rd place finish at NCAA's. Long and Brown came later.

2. Both Brands and Cael have been criticized for these reason.

3. When Brands keeps a wrestler out theres a vague excuse given that doesn't make sense. Brands has never once said Lee is sick (with mono.) When Cael keeps a wrestler out he says "He's sick" which quite frankly is good enough for most people. Regardless whether its true or not, most people will not question someone's heath if they're told that person is sick.

4. Brands outright refused to wrestle VT even when the National duals had them slated to do so and VT has actively and publicly tried to wrestle Iowa. Cael hasn't outright refused to wrestle ISU. I don't recall ISU trying to do the same with PSU and if they had it was with nowhere near the enthusiasm that VT tried to wrestle Iowa. 

5. Brands celebration of "Throw me" was a more over the top celebration than Cael holding his arms out and hugging/lifting Nickal. BTW - I love Cory Clark, great kid, great wrestler. 

6. When Cael does something wrong, it is completely inexcusable according to Iowa fans, but when Brands does something similar Iowa fans turn their heads like nothing happened.

The real reason Brands is hated is because to some people he lacks tact. The real reason Cael is hated is because he wins. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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14 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

1. Brands wasn't scolded for leaving VT. He was scolded for leaving VT after giving a verbal commitment that he was going to be there for the long haul AND taking along with him 5 recruits that used a lot of program resources. Cael tried to leave ISU 3 years earlier and ISU did everything they could to get him to stay. He had already expressed interest in leaving the program. Cael left ISU and his brother and DT (who had not yet graduated HS) followed. ISU was left with 3 NCAA Finals (2 Champs and 1 Runner Up) and a 3rd place finish at NCAA's. Long and Brown came later.

2. Both Brands and Cael have been criticized for these reason.

3. When Brands keeps a wrestler out theres a vague excuse given that doesn't make sense. Brands has never once said Lee is sick (with mono.) When Cael keeps a wrestler out he says "He's sick" which quite frankly is good enough for most people. Regardless whether its true or not, most people will not question someone's heath if they're told that person is sick.

4. Brands outright refused to wrestle VT even when the National duals had them slated to do so and VT has actively and publicly tried to wrestle Iowa. Cael hasn't outright refused to wrestle ISU. I don't recall ISU trying to do the same with PSU and if they had it was with nowhere near the enthusiasm that VT tried to wrestle Iowa. 

5. Brands celebration of "Throw me" was a more over the top celebration than Cael holding his arms out and hugging/lifting Nickal. BTW - I love Cory Clark, great kid, great wrestler. 

6. When Cael does something wrong, it is completely inexcusable according to Iowa fans, but when Brands does something similar Iowa fans turn their heads like nothing happened.

The real reason Brands is hated is because to some people he lacks tact. The real reason Cael is hated is because he wins. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

  1. Just because you feel this was to a lesser extent doesn’t make it right.  Cael left and took arguably the best wrestler in the nation at the time, with him.  And just because he showed interest in leaving also doesn’t make it right, he left his alum for a bigger pay check AND he knew he could not beat Iowa if he stayed in house.  He stayed for 3 years, if he wanted to leave, I am sure there were 50 programs that would have taken him with the snap of a finger.  Don’t try and piss on everyone’s back and tell them it’s raining.  Cael did the exact same thing as Brands did.
  2. I haven’t heard it about Cael as much as Brands but you are correct, they both have been scolded.
  3. Brands doesn’t owe you or anyone else for that matter a reason on why his wrestlers are sitting out.  Matter of fact, if someone is injured there is an actual Law that says he doesn’t have to tell anyone.  Isn’t Hall sitting tonight?  What is Cael’s explanation, it is best for his wrestler?  He doesn’t have to tell us why.  And I am ok with it.  If he wants to sit Hall, fine, but don’t try and say that Lee and Brands duck when this is also a perfect example of ducking.  Again, I don’t care.  I would love to see the match up tonight but Cael doesn’t owe us an explanation. Neither does Brands
  4. You don’t think out of the how many years Cael has been at PSU that ISU hasn’t wanted to wrestle them?  Maybe not, I don’t know but I would assume somewhere down the line, the NCAA would know that this would be a must see event (only because of the coach, not because of the wrestlers) but maybe, just maybe Cael has said behind closed doors that he doesn’t want to wrestle them.

 

And you are making my point for me.  The fans are one of the biggest reasons why I can’t stand Cael and his program.  He does exactly what everyone else does but in the eyes of the fans, he does nothing wrong.

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9 minutes ago, BHawk91 said:
  1. Just because you feel this was to a lesser extent doesn’t make it right.  Cael left and took arguably the best wrestler in the nation at the time, with him.  And just because he showed interest in leaving also doesn’t make it right, he left his alum for a bigger pay check AND he knew he could not beat Iowa if he stayed in house.  He stayed for 3 years, if he wanted to leave, I am sure there were 50 programs that would have taken him with the snap of a finger.  Don’t try and piss on everyone’s back and tell them it’s raining.  Cael did the exact same thing as Brands did.
  2. I haven’t heard it about Cael as much as Brands but you are correct, they both have been scolded.
  3. Brands doesn’t owe you or anyone else for that matter a reason on why his wrestlers are sitting out.  Matter of fact, if someone is injured there is an actual Law that says he doesn’t have to tell anyone.  Isn’t Hall sitting tonight?  What is Cael’s explanation, it is best for his wrestler?  He doesn’t have to tell us why.  And I am ok with it.  If he wants to sit Hall, fine, but don’t try and say that Lee and Brands duck when this is also a perfect example of ducking.  Again, I don’t care.  I would love to see the match up tonight but Cael doesn’t owe us an explanation. Neither does Brands
  4. You don’t think out of the how many years Cael has been at PSU that ISU hasn’t wanted to wrestle them?  Maybe not, I don’t know but I would assume somewhere down the line, the NCAA would know that this would be a must see event (only because of the coach, not because of the wrestlers) but maybe, just maybe Cael has said behind closed doors that he doesn’t want to wrestle them.

 

And you are making my point for me.  The fans are one of the biggest reasons why I can’t stand Cael and his program.  He does exactly what everyone else does but in the eyes of the fans, he does nothing wrong.

3. I’m pretty sure that Hall sitting out tonight is satirical in response to Brands/Lee. 

You’re really wasting your time here, these people already have their mind made up.

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3 minutes ago, Mpchillin said:

3. I’m pretty sure that Hall sitting out tonight is satirical in response to Brands/Lee. 

You’re really wasting your time here, these people already have their mind made up.

Ahh. Let him keep digging. It's funny.

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23 minutes ago, BHawk91 said:
  1. Just because you feel this was to a lesser extent doesn’t make it right.  Cael left and took arguably the best wrestler in the nation at the time, with him.  And just because he showed interest in leaving also doesn’t make it right, he left his alum for a bigger pay check AND he knew he could not beat Iowa if he stayed in house.  He stayed for 3 years, if he wanted to leave, I am sure there were 50 programs that would have taken him with the snap of a finger.  Don’t try and piss on everyone’s back and tell them it’s raining.  Cael did the exact same thing as Brands did.
  2. I haven’t heard it about Cael as much as Brands but you are correct, they both have been scolded.
  3. Brands doesn’t owe you or anyone else for that matter a reason on why his wrestlers are sitting out.  Matter of fact, if someone is injured there is an actual Law that says he doesn’t have to tell anyone.  Isn’t Hall sitting tonight?  What is Cael’s explanation, it is best for his wrestler?  He doesn’t have to tell us why.  And I am ok with it.  If he wants to sit Hall, fine, but don’t try and say that Lee and Brands duck when this is also a perfect example of ducking.  Again, I don’t care.  I would love to see the match up tonight but Cael doesn’t owe us an explanation. Neither does Brands
  4. You don’t think out of the how many years Cael has been at PSU that ISU hasn’t wanted to wrestle them?  Maybe not, I don’t know but I would assume somewhere down the line, the NCAA would know that this would be a must see event (only because of the coach, not because of the wrestlers) but maybe, just maybe Cael has said behind closed doors that he doesn’t want to wrestle them.

 

And you are making my point for me.  The fans are one of the biggest reasons why I can’t stand Cael and his program.  He does exactly what everyone else does but in the eyes of the fans, he does nothing wrong.

1. People saw him wanting to leave coming. This wasn't all that shocking. Also dont be so sure he couldnt beat Iowa had he stayed. You also mention how he left his alma mater. I guess everyone who coaches/works for a school other than their alma mater are in the wrong according to you.

3. Brands doesnt owe anyone any reason at all, however that wasn't the claim wasn't. This addresses WHY hes disliked. You do care. If you didnt care you wouldnt mention it.

4. You are speculating on ISU's desire to wrestle PSU and Cael. Neither side and publicly made it a point to want to or not want to wrestle each other. VT actively and publicly campaigned to wrestle Iowa which Brands actively and publicly avoided.

 

The only point here that's being made here is you have no idea what "exactly the same thing" means.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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