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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

Funny, I use this logic with you ALLTHETIME and you always argue against it/me. 

Not remotely true. I have agreed with PSU being better for quite some time. But, being better over all doesn’t mean they walk on water in every single category and you have a hard time differentiating between the 2. 

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

Not remotely true. I have agreed with PSU being better for quite some time. But, being better over all doesn’t mean they walk on water in every single category and you have a hard time differentiating between the 2. 

So when I predict they'll win because they are just better and you respond with all the ifs, buts, and maybes I just thought I was being real and you unable to accept things for what they were.

Edited by TBar1977

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

So when I predict they'll win because they are just better and you respond with all the ifs, buts, and maybes I just thought I was being real and you unable to accept things for what they were.

Giving scenarios were they could reasonably lose doesn’t mean they weren’t/aren’t the better team.  You are only the best until you aren’t......

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7 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Giving scenarios were they could reasonably lose doesn’t mean they weren’t/aren’t the better team.  You are only the best until you aren’t......

Unless Flo ranks Iowa, OKST or OHST ahead of you all season just to find out the truth in the end.

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8 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Giving scenarios were they could reasonably lose doesn’t mean they weren’t/aren’t the better team.  You are only the best until you aren’t......

Scenarios schmenarios. This is my point. I just say they are the best team and you always argue with that point. You not only want to argue your side for your scenario, you want to argue the other man's side for him, in this case for skikayaker. Everything is semantics with you.

Everyone knows PSU has the best team. But when I say they are the best team. You say that I am saying something different, that I think they walk on water. In reality I am just pointing out the obvious, that they are the best team. 

So your advice to skikayaker rings hollow because, no matter how anyone describes things where PSU is concerned - more "in depth" or with a simple "they are just better", you are going to have a problem with it. 

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14 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Although there is NO WAY IN HELL that OkState will beat PSU, I wouldn't use that result to bolster your point.  They actually only lost by 28 with no Weigel or Sheets and it looks like 165-184 will all change now that Weigel is back.

I would just stick to the fact that PSU is better!

 

Actually, if history is any guide at all, skikayaker's point is a very good point. OSU lost by your "only 28" at The Southern Scuffle mainly because the field was so dang weak because no Minnesota, no Cornell, no Missouri ...etc. Had all those teams been there AND had Weigel and Sheets been there as well, they still lose big. By how many could be argued either way, but they'd still lose because PSU is just better. Skikayekare knows that, and so do you. Everyone knows that. 

Btw, your bolded statement above which you dressed skikayaker down with isn't even accurate, you might want a do over on that one. Wyatt Sheets WAS at The Scuffle. They didn't use his points ibecause he scored fewer than Jonce Blaylock. 

Edited by TBar1977

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So, is the 165 lb starter determined by wrestle off/s? Coach's decision?  Record against common opponents?  Joe is the coach's son, so will  the decision be fair...?  

If it is a wrestle off, who ya got - Smith or Rogers?  

Edited by Bananasplit

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34 minutes ago, Bananasplit said:

So, is the 165 lb starter determined by wrestle off/s? Coach's decision?  Record against common opponents?  Joe is the coach's son, so will  the decision be fair...?  

If it is a wrestle off, who ya got - Smith or Rogers?  

Joe is wrestling 174, not 165. He went up 2 weight classes. If they wrestled I'd take Joe in a heartbeat.

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

Joe is wrestling 174, not 165. He went up 2 weight classes. If they wrestled I'd take Joe in a heartbeat.

Unless I misunderstood, pursuant to the interview with John Smith posted previously in the thread, Joe and Rogers will vie for the 165 lbs spot.  

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12 minutes ago, Bananasplit said:

Unless I misunderstood, pursuant to the interview with John Smith posted previously in the thread, Joe and Rogers will vie for the 165 lbs spot.  

That's what I heard as well.  Though I did get the impression that whoever loses the wrestle off at 165 will get the opportunity to wrestle Jacobe for the 174 spot. 

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It’s a shame we won’t see an okie state-Penn state dual this year. The teams match up well and there are several swing matches that could go either way with huge implications for the team score. Here’s my attempt at predicting what said dual would look like:

125: Picc tech. Schnupp. Picc has been lights out this year and I think he has a great chance at being in the finals this year. Schnupp keeping this to a major or regular decision would be huge for PSU. 

5-0 okie state 

133: Fix dec. RBY. This matchup of the stud freshmen is the first “swing” bout of the dual, but I like Fix here. RBY winning certainly wouldn’t shock me, but I think Fix has shown a more complete offensive and defensive skill set at this point in the season. I see this as a one takedown match where Fix wins a key scramble or is able to score late in a period to seal the win. An RBY win would dump the 133 rankings on there head and seriously hurt OSU’s chances in this hypothetical dual 

8-0 cowboys 

141: Lee dec. Brock. Both these guys can score points in a hurry, and the only result I don’t see as a legit possibility are either guy winning by tech. Brock’s inconsistency at 141 leads me to pick Lee relatively confidently, but Brock’s ability to take guys from their feet to their back makes me cautious in counting him out, especially against a guy like Lee who goes for broke the whole seven minutes. 

8-3 pokes 

149: Gfeller dec. Berge/Verk. Gfeller is a certified stud, and Berge and Verkleeren are both missing a “signature win”  to set them apart from the pack this season. I think Gfeller wins comfortably, and has a solid chance to get OSU some crucial bonus. I can’t help but think back to him decking Nick Lee as a redshirt last year 

11-3 OSU 

157: Nolf tech. Sheets. Do I really have to explain this one? Nolf will be hunting for the pin, but I think Smitty will do a good job prepping sheets to stay off his back to keep the dual close as possible. 

11-8 okie state 

165: Cenzo dec. Smith/Rogers. Huge bout here. An okie state win could set them up to win, but Cenzo is a guy I won’t bet against. I think he has the skill and poise to take a controlled decision from either cowboy AA. However, Smith has looked good this year, and Rogers upper body arsenal gives him the means to change the entire match if Joseph gets sloppy in the ties. 

11-11 

174: Hall dec. Smith/Smith. I just don’t see either guy possessing the finishing or scrambling ability to win the takedown battle against Hall. This is not a knock on Joe or Jacobs, more a statement about how elite Hall’s defense is. I would love to be proven wrong and see 174 thrown into total chaos.

14-11 Nittany Lions

184: This is the toughest weight to offer a prediction for given the number of unknowns. Would Shak go? Can Geer beat a less than 100% Rasheed? I like Geer against the PSU backup and a less than healthy shak. However, I think Rasheed cruises here if he’s healthy. For predictions sake, I’ll take Geer by decision over PSU’s backup. 

14-14 

197: Nickal wbf. Weigel. In prior years I think there would be no way Weigel gets pinned in this important of a match-but after watching Nickal deck Moore and seeing Preston look less than stellar against Air Force, I think Bo comes up huge when PSU needs him most. He is at his best in the big matches, and a pin here could essentially ice the dual for PSU. Weigel keeping this to a major or regular decision would put Okie state in a great spot-forcing this dual to come down to heavyweight favors them on paper. 

20-14 PSU

285: White dec. Cassar. Another huge (pun always intended) swing match. White has been the only one to slow down Cassar’s neutral offense this year. Being a bumped up 197 himself, White matches up very well with Cassar technically and physically. He holds a size advantage, but does not sacrifice speed like most other heavyweights. This prediction could very easily get flipped by one Cassar double leg, and Anthony will likely have to beat White in either the semis or finals if he wants to be a national champ this year.

This brings the final score to 20-17 PSU. On paper okie state can turn this one into a real nail biter, and put themselves in great position to pull the upset by winning the matches they’re supposed to, minimizing bonus against PSU’s studs, scoring their own bonus, and/or pulling one very possible upset. PSU could just as easily make this an ugly night for the cowboys if they win the swing matches and Nolf/Nickal do what they have been known to do to good wrestlers. After watching them railroad Ohio state, this is not an unreasonable prediction either. 

 

Just my $0.02 on the most exciting dual we won’t be seeing this season

 

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I don't think the question is whether Okie State can beat Penn State. The question is whether these lineup changes can bump them in to the top three or maybe even the top two.  Short of a miracle run nobody is going to unseat PSU but Ohio State, Iowa, Oklahoma State, and maybe Michigan are all in the race for those next two spots. 

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I've coached enough to know that I wouldn't want these type of changes this late.   This Poke team  could be in the team title hunt many years, but this year...not so much. I do think it's a new trend that there are 4 or 5 teams that could have a hot hand, and put pressure on the champs.  It would still take a falter of some kind by the boys in blue, but stranger things have happened.  OSU seems to have slightly better team balance than the other contenders, but Ohio State, and Iowa probably both have more finalists.  Michigan is interesting too.  

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