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Broomstick

Best at 157 in College

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Since the 157 pound weight class was established in 1999, is Nolf this year the best wrestler at this weight class in college wrestling?   Only considering years wrestlers were at this weight class, I think he is with Burrough's and Dake's (in that order) junior years' being the closest competition.  I never saw that much of Bertin, so maybe someone could tell me why he should be in this conversation as well.

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6 minutes ago, Broomstick said:

Since the 157 pound weight class was established in 1999, is Nolf this year the best wrestler at this weight class in college wrestling?   Only considering years wrestlers were at this weight class, I think he is with Burrough's and Dake's (in that order) junior years' being the closest competition.  I never saw that much of Bertin, so maybe someone could tell me why he should be in this conversation as well.

Bertin was exceptionally physical, but did have problems with funk(see Tirapelle).  Plus, he wrestled during a stretch when 157 was the deepest I can remember.  Becker, Gentry, Percival, Tirapelle, Anderson, Maynard, Hendricks(his 1st year), both Paulsons, Roller, Zinck, Snyder, Owen, Nakamura and others.  He took some losses, but could beat any of the guys you listed, including Nolf.

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5 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I think he handles all of them.

I like Nolf a TON.  But, "handle" Dake?  Are you serious?  Dake was probably at his absolute, folkstyle best at 157.  That even includes his bumping up to take on Taylor.  In fact, so much of what makes Nolf great was the same for Taylor.  I would be surprised if the Dake-Nolf results were not eerilly similar in that regard.....

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1 minute ago, MSU158 said:

I like Nolf a TON.  But, "handle" Dake?  Are you serious?  Dake was probably at his absolute, folkstyle best at 157.  That even includes his bumping up to take on Taylor.  In fact, so much of what makes Nolf great was the same for Taylor.  I would be surprised if the Dake-Nolf results were not eerilly similar in that regard.....

We had this discussion a few weeks ago so I dont really feel like revisiting it. Yes I think he does. And I love me some Kyle Dake.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

We had this discussion a few weeks ago so I dont really feel like revisiting it. Yes I think he does.

We, meaning me and you?  I don't remember discussing Dake vs. Nolf whatsoever.  When was this?

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9 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

We, meaning me and you?  I don't remember discussing Dake vs. Nolf whatsoever.  When was this?

We as in this board a few weeks ago. I said I think Nolf handles all the previous 157 champs. People got their undies in a bunch because they disagreed with me regarding Burroughs and Dake (as juniors).

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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1 minute ago, BigTenFanboy said:

We as in this board a few weeks ago. I said I think Nolf handles all the previous 157 champs. People got their undies in a bunch because they disagreed with me regarding Burroughs and Dake (as juniors).

K, I must not have taken part in that and respect you not wanting to go down that road again.  However, I do have to agree with those "undies in a bunch" folk!

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3 minutes ago, ionel said:

Nate Carr & Kenny Monday.  Monday did pretty well at the world level.

yeah original post said keep it to 157 guys, but I've wondered about the time machine match-ups with old 150s as well. Nolf v Lincoln Mac? Crazy.... 

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6 minutes ago, ionel said:

150 is 157, they added 7lb when went to 1 hr weigh ins

Although that is how it was intended, that isn't uniformly true.  Everyone that was at 150 didn't automatically transition to 157 or any of the respective weight classes for that matter.  They were considerably different weigh in rules and, as such, comparing the 2 evenly wouldn't be accurate.  I am as big of a fan as any at comparing the greats across time, but I don't know how fair or accurate it would be to just compare the 2 in a vacuum.

Edited by MSU158

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1 minute ago, MSU158 said:

Although that is how it was intended, that isn't uniformly true.  Everyone that was at 150 didn't automatically transition to 157 or any of the respective weight classes for that matter.  They were considerably different weigh in rules and, as such, comparing the 2 evenly wouldn't be accurate.  I am as big of a fan as any at comparing the greats across time, but I don't know how fair or accurate it would be to just compare the 2 in a vacuum.

Well then the OP probably intended to constrain this to the Penn State era, no actually the Nolf Nickal era.  Well actually that doesn't work, cause theres Martinez and if stayed at 157 (he could have) and been a 4 timer, we wouldn't be talking about Nolf.  So we really only want to focus on the Penn St Nolf Nickal post iMar era & sure that makes Nolf without any doubt - the best at 57.

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2 minutes ago, ionel said:

Well then the OP probably intended to constrain this to the Penn State era, no actually the Nolf Nickal era.  Well actually that doesn't work, cause theres Martinez and if stayed at 157 (he could have) and been a 4 timer, we wouldn't be talking about Nolf.  So we really only want to focus on the Penn St Nolf Nickal post iMar era & sure that makes Nolf without any doubt - the best at 57.

The OP states since 1999 which includes the Minnesota, Okie State, and Iowa eras in addition to the current PSU era.

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14 minutes ago, ionel said:

Well then the OP probably intended to constrain this to the Penn State era, no actually the Nolf Nickal era.  Well actually that doesn't work, cause theres Martinez and if stayed at 157 (he could have) and been a 4 timer, we wouldn't be talking about Nolf.  So we really only want to focus on the Penn St Nolf Nickal post iMar era & sure that makes Nolf without any doubt - the best at 57.

Not at all true.  OkState won 4 in a row in that time span.  Iowa won 3 and 5 in total.  Minnesota won 2(3 in total) and tOSU won 1.  So, they STILL combine for more than PSU.  PSU is the best team all together since '99, but there were plenty of really good teams and, for this exercise, great wrestlers to compare to and find at least 1 to beat ANY and EVERY PSU wrestler during that time span.

Nickal would likely lose to Cox and almost certainly Sanderson.

Nolf would have serious issues with Dake and Burroughs and did lose to IMar.

You can even find guys to beat Ruth, Taylor, Retherford, Wright, Molinaro,  Megaludis, Brown, Joseph and Hall.  As good as they all were, pretty much all ran into all time greats or had one in their weight class during the 157lb time frame!

Edited by MSU158
accuracy

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5 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Not at all true.  OkState won 4 in a row in that time span.  Iowa won 3 and 5 in total.  Minnesota won 2 and tOSU won 1.  So, they STILL combine for more than PSU.  PSU is the best team all together since '99, but there were plenty of really good teams and, for this exercise, great wrestlers to compare to and find at least 1 to beat ANY and EVERY PSU wrestler during that time span.

Nickal would likely lose to Cox and almost certainly Sanderson.

Nolf would have serious issues with Dake and Burroughs and did lose to IMar.

You can even find guys to beat Ruth, Taylor, Retherford, Wright, Molinaro,  Megaludis, Brown, Joseph and Hall.  As good as they all were, pretty much all ran into all time greats or had one in their weight class during the 157lb time frame!

Minnesota won 3. 2001, 2002, and 2007

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

I like Nolf a TON.  But, "handle" Dake?  Are you serious?  Dake was probably at his absolute, folkstyle best at 157.  That even includes his bumping up to take on Taylor.  In fact, so much of what makes Nolf great was the same for Taylor.  I would be surprised if the Dake-Nolf results were not eerilly similar in that regard.....

He's good, but I don't think he handles Dake or Burroughs.  Dake stuck Taylor a couple months later in Free.  IMart's wins over Nolf make me think Burroughs and Dake would take him. 

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