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Mizzou...overrated yet again?

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1 hour ago, XiXiTiger said:

The idea that Smith is “gaming the system” is laughable.  The MAC schedule is weak, but Mizzou’s non con is typically one of the toughest.  His wrestlers are usually well deserving of their seeds.  

With that said, I’ve often felt Mizzou has underperformed at NCAAs.  They likely would have won in 2007 if they performed to seed.  Had a shot in 2015 too.  Maybe it has to do with mental pre-tourney preparation?  They seem to hold their own in duals.

I agree with what has been mentioned by others, they need to toughen up their tournament schedule.  The only tournaments they have are the MAC (weak), and Vegas (all the way back in Nov/Dec.).  When natties roll around they're not used to seeing top level competition in a multi-day tournament.  The MAC should be tougher next year with the merger, but they also need to get out of the South Beach Duals and back into the Scuffle.  Also, D1 needs another tough tournament in late Jan. early Feb., between holiday tournaments and qualifiers.  National duals used to partially fill that role till Carl got the red-ass.

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4 minutes ago, teach said:

Maybe what he is doing is just right?  Best for his kids?

This is one of the premier programs in the country, run by a hell of a recruiter and coach. 90 percent of the D-1 teams would love to have what Missouri has.

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The program was damn near ruined before Smith arrived. They had zero national champions, zero conference titles, a handful of All-Americans and hadnt had a winning season in nearly 10 seasons. 

Yes going to the SEC may have hurt their chances of creating a solid conference schedule, but it also brought in a lot of revenue for the school and the program (brand new locker rooms, Nike gear, new facility outside the wrestling room.) it's not like Smith and Co. walk around and act like they're the greatest team in the country, I think they just want some respect which y'all seem to still refuse to give them. Yes, they have repeatedly had disappoiting NCAA tournaments, which I would agree is a lack of wrestling in tournaments. 

However, I think Smith should be praised for how he develops his wrestlers over time. He doesnt always land the top recruits but manages to turn them into AA quality. (Erneste, Mayes, Lavallee, Etc.) 

Edited by FriendlyCamper

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And he has done it with a lot of Missouri kids.  Which while producing some good kids, they are not the power producing state that the top tier teams pull from. 

When you think about it, not a lot of kids that go to out of state schools from MO have the success the ones who go to Mizzou have.   Brewer comes to mind as the main one who had success. Zach Bailey as well, and without all the injuries probably could have won it.  Ream had some success for North Dakota and Hayes at Ohio.  To be honest though, I think Hayes would have been more successful had he went to Mizzou.   Other than the 4 mentioned many top MO kids don't seem to have developed as well at other schools. With that said, I also understand that sometimes it's about getting out and simply wanting to go away to school as well. Not just the wrestling. 

Edited by scramble

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On 2/18/2019 at 9:53 PM, KCMO2 said:

I agree with what has been mentioned by others, they need to toughen up their tournament schedule.  The only tournaments they have are the MAC (weak), and Vegas (all the way back in Nov/Dec.).  When natties roll around they're not used to seeing top level competition in a multi-day tournament.  The MAC should be tougher next year with the merger, but they also need to get out of the South Beach Duals and back into the Scuffle.  Also, D1 needs another tough tournament in late Jan. early Feb., between holiday tournaments and qualifiers.  National duals used to partially fill that role till Carl got the red-ass.

I hear you but the later tournament is a poor decision. Guys get banged up in these good tournaments. We are still having issues with guys being out from the big 3 tournaments this year. If they were in Feb NCAAs would suffer due to injury. 

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2 hours ago, PSUMike said:

Smith has had 3 seasons with 10 qualifiers and several with 5 AAs. By any metric, he's doing a damn fine job. 

Especially considering the recruits he gets. His lineup is mostly the best guys in Missouri and he turns them into AAs consistently. Without having the data, my best guess is he has the best track record for turning non top 50 recruits into AAs. 

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Again, the premise of this thread is ignorant.

Not every school in the country has to win it all to be considered a viable success.

Smith has helped Mizzou develop into a top 10 team year in and year out that consistently produces All Americans.

Regardless if every single one of his guys hit at the tournament, they are all in good position,  and have the opportunity to get it done.  As a coach or an athlete that is all you can ask for.  

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To be clear, Brian Smith has done an amazing job at Missouri and even if they never performed to seed at the NCAA tournament (which isn't quite the case), it wouldn't diminish that. At the end of the day, the finish is what matters and the Missouri program is finishing much better than they ever did before Smith. It isn't even close.

Some of us simply find it interesting to see which programs out-perform their seeds on a regular basis and which don't. There are noticeable trends in this area both good and bad. Dakotajudo did a nice job outlining some of the potential causes of this several posts back. What makes this a particularly interesting case is that Missouri was on the come up in the Big 12, then continued to improve after their transition to the MAC. This makes it even more difficult to pin down a root cause. It is always more fun to debate a question when the answer isn't obvious.

In many ways, the scrutiny of their NCAA tournament performances is a sign of how far the Tigers have come. Missouri had one top-10 national finish in program history (10th in 1984) before Brian Smith arrived. They've had 8 in the last 12 years with top 6 finishes in each of the last 4 seasons. They are now a top-level program on a consistent basis. When an oddity like this is noticed, it is going to be discussed. No one was concerned with Missouri's performance at nationals before, it wasn't a relevant discussion. Now it is.

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