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Mizzou -> MMA article on ESPN

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I've heard Askren make several comments over the years about Perry ducking him, but I thought it was because Askren didn't like Iowa.  Didn't know that Perry actually called out Askren in WIN magazine.  Also, good story in there about Smith's nervousness before Askren-Herbert and Askren just goofing off and working on his fro.

Pretty amazing that there were three future MMA stars in Mizzou's room at the same time.

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9 minutes ago, Alwayswrestling said:

There has to be no argument that Cox is the best wrestler to come out of the Missouri program.

Um, yes there does.  Askren was much more dominant than Cox in college.  4x finalist who teched or pinned almost everybody that didn't stall out on him his junior or senior seasons.  Cox's style translated much better to freestyle, so he has really excelled and he may well have been the best MU wrestler ever, but there is definitely some discussion to be had there.

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Cox is obviously the better freestyler.

As for folk, it’s hard to compare the two. They had such different styles. Had they been the same weight and age, would Cox have been Pendleton? Or would have lost like tons of other studs Askren beat up on?

I suspect Cox would have been a Pendleton, given his world-level success while he was still a college-aged wrestler. 

But I could be wrong. 

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1 minute ago, Perry said:

Cox has more accolades and is the more successful wrestler, but askren bonused everyone. He had 91 pins in his college career, that's just insane

I was just talking with a couple buddies about this. If you include post-college wrestling, it's hard not to give it to Cox. But based on just college alone, man it's close, and definitely arguments to be made both ways. 2 time Hodge winner vs 3 time NCAA champ (among many other accolades for both)

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31 minutes ago, fudge_tunnel said:

As a senior, Cox has trouble with freshman Kollin Moore.  I don’t think Ben ever had difficulty with a freshman, even when he was a freshman 

Cox was world class while still in college. As far as I am aware, none of Askren's college opponents were at that level.

Edited by Katie

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Cox has always been a great freestyler.  He beat Snyder his senior year in the finals at Fargo.  In college Cox lost to Snyder, and McClintosh (spelling) twice.  Askrens was a 4 time finalist.  Unfortunately he had Pendleton.  Pendleton was so good.  I thin he actually majored askrens once or twice.  If not for Pendleton he probably would have been a 4 timer. However, Cox also never redshirted where Askren did. They really had pretty similar college careers all in all. 

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Askren or Cox will be debated forever by Mizzou fans, and it's a fun argument to have. Cox has one more championship and world level success and Askren has four finals appearances and two Hodge trophies. I'll take both of them.

The eye test - Askren and it is not even close. If they were both the same age I would venture that Askren could bump weight and win.
Believe me I am a big Cox fan but the eyes don't lie.
Askren could certainly make it interesting, but I don't see any way he beats J'den giving up that much weight. Dake and Taylor couldn't do it (an asterisk for it being freestyle)

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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Cox has always been a great freestyler.  He beat Snyder his senior year in the finals at Fargo.  In college Cox lost to Snyder, and McClintosh (spelling) twice.  Askrens was a 4 time finalist.  Unfortunately he had Pendleton.  Pendleton was so good.  I thin he actually majored askrens once or twice.  If not for Pendleton he probably would have been a 4 timer. However, Cox also never redshirted where Askren did. They really had pretty similar college careers all in all. 
Cox only lost to Snyder and McIntosh once each. (That may be what you meant)

He had fewer career losses than Askren. With the only "bad" losses being to Phil Wellington early in his true freshman season and then getting DQed against him while trying to get retribution his junior year. And I believe he only lost to McIntosh because of the big letdown after losing to Snyder.

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It’s an interesting question. 

Askren was one of the best ever at the ultimate goal in wrestling - pinning. Guys like Nolf and Nickal will end their careers with around 60 pins. Askren had over 90. Insane. 

Cox obviously had more senior level success, but askren also left the sport to make money. If askren graduated in 2016, he may have decided to stay in wrestling and ended up with world medals. 

They also have dramatically different personalities but seem to get along 

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9 hours ago, Katie said:

Cox was world class while still in college. As far as I am aware, none of Askren's college opponents were at that level.

Jake Herbert later down the line was world class, maybe not at the time. Before they wrestled in the NCAA finals they were considered "equals" before Askren Majored him. The only year that Ben was the 'clear' favorite was his senior year. Even though in hindsight he was pretty far away from the field in both his Jr and Sr years.

Edited by iGranby

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13 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

It’s an interesting question. 

Askren was one of the best ever at the ultimate goal in wrestling - pinning. Guys like Nolf and Nickal will end their careers with around 60 pins. Askren had over 90. Insane. 

Cox obviously had more senior level success, but askren also left the sport to make money. If askren graduated in 2016, he may have decided to stay in wrestling and ended up with world medals. 

They also have dramatically different personalities but seem to get along 

If we’re talking freestyle, there is no evidence Askren was ever on Cox’s level.

Askren went to the 2008 Olympics six years after graduating from high school, went 1-1, and was eliminated.

Last summer, Cox was only five years out of high school, and had already won an Olympic bronze, world bronze, and world gold. 

Askren’s strength is proprioception, which makes it more difficult for him to excel at freestyle. 

Edited by Katie

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9 minutes ago, iGranby said:

Jake Herbert later down the line was world class, maybe not at the time. Before they wrestled in the NCAA finals they were considered "equals" before Askren Majored him. The only year that Ben was the 'clear' favorite was his senior year. Even though in hindsight he was pretty far away from the field in both his Jr and Sr years.

Askren was successful against lots of studs, but not Pendleton. So the question is, would Cox have been another Pendleton?

Given that Cox was an Olympic medalist while still in college, my guess is that Cox would be another Pendleton. 

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13 hours ago, Katie said:

If we’re talking freestyle, there is no evidence Askren was ever on Cox’s level.

Askren went to the 2008 Olympics six years after graduating from high school, went 1-1, and was eliminated.

Last summer, Cox was only five years out of high school, and had already won an Olympic bronze, world bronze, and world gold. 

Askren’s strength is proprioception, which makes it more difficult for him to excel at freestyle. 

For sure. We just don’t know how good askren would’ve been in freestyle though. He tends to become a champ at whatever he does. 

Askren’s proprioception is off the charts. Off the charts. I wish I could see what he sees while he wrestles. There is some next level mental abilities there

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17 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Cox only lost to Snyder and McIntosh once each. (That may be what you meant)

He had fewer career losses than Askren. With the only "bad" losses being to Phil Wellington early in his true freshman season and then getting DQed against him while trying to get retribution his junior year. And I believe he only lost to McIntosh because of the big letdown after losing to Snyder.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

I would agree with all of those points.  I personally think it is splitting haird,.  However, statistically (so to speak), I think Pendleton is the only variable in the way of Askren having the more clear advantage.  He was pretty much the lone individual that kept Askren from being a 3 or even 4 time champ.  If I remember right Askren managed to pull off 1 win against him out of several meetings.  The crazy thing is  that a dominating as Askren was, Pendleton pretty much owned him. He was so freaking dominate of a wrestler.  It's surprising his name doesn't come up more.  If J'den had him in his weight he probably would have lost to him too. So for that reason the 2 vs 3 titles is a wash.  IMO it really is like splitting hairs.

Edited by scramble

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