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FRL: Spencer Lee is NOT sick!

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27 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

3. Would anyone really be shocked if Nolf made the world team this year? 

 

 

I would be surprised if he made the team this year (as would many others).  Not saying he doesn't have a shot or won't make it, I just don't think he will.  In the previous thread on this topic I said I feel like 2021 will be his first team, and would put his odds at medaling that year pretty high.  

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43 minutes ago, Marcus Cisero said:

One of the single greatest wrestling recruits in history, a year after winning an NCAA title as a true freshman who today can't even enter the 3rd period without being gassed – and now we learn it has nothing to do with a prior or current illness, then there is one thing to do. FIRE TOM, and do it today.

 

Verbage from the click bait kings at FRL isn't exactly learning anything...

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6 minutes ago, russelscout said:

1. I meant he didn't go undefeated and the fan base was wrong. Sorry to ruin your gothcya moment.

2. That is fine that you felt that way, however you are painting Iowa fans as being a bunch of irrational fans completely out of touch with the rest of wrestling world, but in this case it seemed that they were not alone in feeling Lee wouldn't lose again.

This has devolved into a discussion of why hawk fans need to take their medicine and accept that Lee is just not that good. He has never been that good, and last years tournament was just a good run which deserves an asterisk because Nato was actually hurt. Run with that narrative. Thats fine, but I disagree. 

1. Nothing ruined. Wasnt a gotcha moment. Thank you for your clarification.

2. Many of them are irrational fans completely out of touch with the rest of the wrestling world.

Spencer Lee is/was that good and he got on a hot streak. Nato was actually hurt.

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7 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I would be surprised if he made the team this year (as would many others).  Not saying he doesn't have a shot or won't make it, I just don't think he will.  In the previous thread on this topic I said I feel like 2021 will be his first team, and would put his odds at medaling that year pretty high.  

Shocked > surprised

Picc beating Lee = Surprise

Picc pinning Lee = Shock

See the difference?

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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8 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

1. Nothing ruined. Wasnt a gotcha moment. Thank you for your clarification.

2. Many of them are irrational fans completely out of touch with the rest of the wrestling world.

Spencer Lee is/was that good and he got on a hot streak. Nato was actually hurt.

2. Maybe but most fans do act fanatically.

Edited by russelscout

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11 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

But you did push back on me and all I ever said was that I thought he could beat Green this year, or anyone else at the weight in the US. Again, the claim was that he could beat them, not that he 100% will beat them. This is what I personally got push back on. 

What people said on twitter isn't my thing since I don't even have twitter. 

Right, I was backpedaling because I realized it wasn't mentioned on here. 

Looking back, I made a few claims: 1) I don't think Nolf will medal this year; 2) I did not think that the Nolf-Green freestyle match was as close as suggested; and 3) I think Green is the favorite over Nolf at 70 kg this year.  None of which was ever intended to suggest that Nolf can't beat Green or that Nolf would never make a world team. I can see how I came across in a different way but I think Nolf is great - I just try to temper my expectations concerning world medals.  I voiced similar concerns regarding Taylor prior to the world championships and I was glad to be proven wrong.  Dude had to dig deep against that russian and showed a lot of toughness that someone like him typically doesn't have to display -- I thought it was awesome. 

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1 minute ago, ThorsteinV said:

Right, I was backpedaling because I realized it wasn't mentioned on here. 

Looking back, I made a few claims: 1) I don't think Nolf will medal this year; 2) I did not think that the Nolf-Green freestyle match was as close as suggested; and 3) I think Green is the favorite over Nolf at 70 kg this year.  None of which was ever intended to suggest that Nolf can't beat Green or that Nolf would never make a world team. I can see how I came across in a different way but I think Nolf is great - I just try to temper my expectations concerning world medals.  I voiced similar concerns regarding Taylor prior to the world championships and I was glad to be proven wrong.  Dude had to dig deep against that russian and showed a lot of toughness that someone like him typically doesn't have to display -- I thought it was awesome. 

Solid posting. 

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Every time a big name Iowa wrestler goes through a rough patch or loses a big match, a lot of people take tremendous joy in seeing it due to the holdover feelings from when Iowa was dominant AND due to the fact that the hawks have always embraced the villain role. We saw it with Metcalf when he was beaten by Caldwell and then again by Palmer. We saw this with Gilman when he was pinned by Moisey and then again when he was upset by Cruz. 

This is the nature of sports. The entire country cheers when Tom Brady loses. For a while, they cheered every time Lebron fell short. The Penn State posters who are enjoying Iowa's struggles will eventually be on the other side of this exchange as PSU supplants Iowa as the villain in the sport. 

In regards to Lee, I think what is striking to me is how beatable elite guys can become if they are not in optimized condition (meaning health, shape, or mindset). Look at the difference between CKLV Micic last year and NCAAs Micic. He didn't get way better at wrestling all of a sudden. He reached optimal condition. Look at Retherford in Carver against Sorensen and then in the rematch in the semis at NCAAs. Snyder has taken losses to cupcakes outside the world championships because he wasn't in optimized form.

Whatever you believe about Spencer right now, one thing is clear. He is not at his optimized version. His body language and energy levels are way different. My personal theory is that he got sick in December and that kept him from full energy levels at Midlands where he received a scare from Glory and then the shocking defeat to Rivera. Combine those setbacks with the immense pressure he feels as the face of the Iowa program and as someone who was expected to contend for a Hodge, I think his confidence took a major hit. If he doesn't get an early takedown or turn, his mindset changes on the mat. A switch flips and all of a sudden he starts wrestling not to lose, much like Warner was early in the season. A bad case of nerves can sometimes look exactly like what he looks like after the first period. So, it started as physical, but has now become a mental thing with him. He's so afraid of fading that he causes himself to fade.

With all that being said, nothing I said is supported by anything other than my gut feeling. Nobody knows what the deal is with Spencer, and it's probable we never will. It certainly has made 125 a much more compelling weight. 

Edited by qc8223

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4 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

But would it really? I have heard a lot of whack a doodle stuff come out of that program. An example would be Warner having jetlag in November for flights taken in September. 

Show me the quote that specifically said Warner's late start was due to "jet lag".

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4 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

But would it really? I have heard a lot of whack a doodle stuff come out of that program. An example would be Warner having jetlag in November for flights taken in September. 

Did Tom Brands specifically say jetlag? Or did he say recuperating from the World Championships? If you work to peak for Worlds in September, it's not outrageous to take some time off the mat to recover before the notoriously difficult 5 month college season. 

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3 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

Did Tom Brands specifically say jetlag? Or did he say recuperating from the World Championships? If you work to peak for Worlds in September, it's not outrageous to take some time off the mat to recover before the notoriously difficult 5 month college season. 

You are correct, QC. Jet lag was never mentioned. Tbar is a disengenous liar but we all knew that.

Edited by wrestlingphish

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1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Shocked > surprised

Picc beating Lee = Surprise

Picc pinning Lee = Shock

See the difference?

 

1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Shocked > surprised

Picc beating Lee = Surprise

Picc pinning Lee = Shock

See the difference?

Really? Why do I even...

Okay, I would be shocked if Nolf made the team this year. 

My goodness. 

Edited by Lurker

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Lots of people would know if Lee was sick-- not just Brands. Lee's teammates, his doctor, team trainers, the entire coaching staff, his non-wrestler friends on campus-- all might know and some certainly know. The odd thing is that the people who know are not talking. But a lot of folks who know nothing ARE talking.  

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50 minutes ago, wrestlingphish said:

Show me the quote that specifically said Warner's late start was due to "jet lag".

You go find it. I am not going to spend a lot of time looking for a video of brands from November. 

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14 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

You go find it. I am not going to spend a lot of time looking for a video of brands from November. 

If I’m not mistaken it wasn’t a Flo interview but like a hawk report or hawk central or something like that?

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Sketchy reports on Iowa Law Enforcement nets about some crazy redneck in a wierd Camper pickup driving around buying booze for everyone and their mothers cousins at every bar in Iowa and trying to get mental health technicians, nurses, cops and private re-hab clinic doctors to talk freely.

I'm sure we'll read it here first when the results are known.

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This is the interview in question.  No mention of jet-lag, unless jet-leg = “he wrestled in a very tough tournament in which he prepared the right way for, and we wanted to give him a break”

 

 

https://www.hawkcentral.com/videos/sports/college/iowa/wrestling/2018/11/20/tom-brands-discusses-purdue-dual-jacob-warners-readiness-and-wrestling-moon/2071902002/

 

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I’m sure it’s not lying as much as it’s a higher level of understanding we spokes on the wheel can’t quite comprehend. I mean, we’re not Penn State fans, so we shouldn’t expect to be able to. 

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20 minutes ago, wrestlingphish said:

I am just shocked and appalled that Tbar would come on Al Gore's internet and lie.

 

Have you no shame?

Not really lying, he chooses to hear what he wants to hear and his interpretations are usually misguided by his hatred for Iowa. We all have this issue in one way or another.

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6 minutes ago, Mpchillin said:

Not really lying, he chooses to hear what he wants to hear and his interpretations are usually misguided by his hatred for Iowa. We all have this issue in one way or another.

No, it’s lying. He said “I’m not taking all that time to look it up” 

A) it took a 30 second google search to pull up the interview 

2) Anyone who has spent any time on these boards know full well that if that was was said, or even in anyway implied, he would find it no matter how long it takes just to show phish up. 

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2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

No, it’s lying. He said “I’m not taking all that time to look it up” 

A) it took a 30 second google search to pull up the interview 

2) Anyone who has spent any time on these boards know full well that if that was was said, or even in anyway implied, he would find it no matter how long it takes just to show phish up. 

You’re right, I was trying to be nice.

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8 hours ago, BHawk91 said:

What is so crazy about it.  Does Flo actually know what it is?  NO, they don't.  Neither do I or you or anyone else besides Brands and Lee.

 

8 hours ago, boconnell said:

 If you and I don't know, then we also don't know what anyone else knows (or doesn't know).  

 

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