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Why Are We Talking About Lee but not Valencia?

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12 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Valencia got caught and pinned in a match he was winning by a guy who gave him his closest match at NCAAs last year. Not all that shocking if you really think about it.

Valencia did not get "caught" in a cradle.  Lewis ran it perfectly.  Just like Lee didn't get "caught" in a cradle against Picc.

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If you had asked me after the NCAA finals last year who my top four p4p wrestlers were heading into this season, I'd have had Lee and Valencia ahead of everyone except Nolf and Nickal.   After WTT I might have even said Valencia #1. 

Shows how hard the sport is. If you're not getting better, or aren't 100%, there are guys ready to step up and take your spot.  

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14 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

ASU should be a lot better than they are.  They have primo talent yet aren't seeing results.  They are not in the same league as the Big 10 powers + Ok St.

Though most of the talent isn't or hasn't been on the mat this year. Outside of Shields and Valencia the lineup has been pretty thin. 

Milhoff just returned to the matt after missing two months with a concussion. Courtney isn't the wrestler everyone thought he was going to be coming out of high school. Maruca seems to have gotten worse in his 3 years at ASU, he's nowhere near where he was a freshman. Pagdalia has been a pleasant surprise as an over achieving 6th year redshirt.

Alex Valencia, Teemer, Belshay and Hall are all redshirting. No one seems to know what's up with Norfleet, a seemingly minor injury in December and we haven't seen him since. I'd assume he's redshirting as well. Counting Millhoffs extended absence that's 6 potential starters who haven't been in the lineup this year. That's why they aren't seeing any results. There just isn't the depth in the program yet. Hopefully with next years top of the line recruiting class added to this years redshirts the Devils will be able to handle the adversity of a few injuries.

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14 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Dont hate Iowa. Just cant stand Tommy B or a large subsec of Iowas fanbase. Theres a difference. Corey Clark and Sammy Brooks! Those are 2 of my guys!

Honestly man, how do you have such a problem with the Iowa fanbase, especially on this site? There isn't many of us here, and most of us aren't spouting off relentless pro-Iowa rhetoric. I often hear that its because of HR, but even over their the obnoxious fan is few and far between. What is your giant beef with the Iowa fan-base?

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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Honestly man, how do you have such a problem with the Iowa fanbase, especially on this site? There isn't many of us here, and most of us aren't spouting off relentless pro-Iowa rhetoric. I often hear that its because of HR, but even over their the obnoxious fan is few and far between. What is your giant beef with the Iowa fan-base?

I did say subsec of the Iowa fanbase.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Honestly man, how do you have such a problem with the Iowa fanbase, especially on this site? There isn't many of us here, and most of us aren't spouting off relentless pro-Iowa rhetoric. I often hear that its because of HR, but even over their the obnoxious fan is few and far between. What is your giant beef with the Iowa fan-base?

Agreed.  Don't think it's the Iowa fanbase that rubs people the wrong way on this board.  

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Why does the word "caught" get some people so upset?  I assume it's because people think it's a way to say the lesser wrestler did the catching?  For guys that claim this sport is soooo tough, I've never seen such a sensitive group the last couple of days.  

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

I did subsec of the Iowa fanbase.

Can't that be said about every fanbase? 

Almost every thread on here about Iowa is started by a PSU fan trying to bait Iowa fans. That seems more obnoxious than anything I have seen from an Iowa fan. 

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Just now, russelscout said:

Can't that be said about every fanbase? 

Almost every thread on here about Iowa is started by a PSU fan trying to bait Iowa fans. That seems more obnoxious than anything I have seen from an Iowa fan. 

Sure its obnoxious. Its also obnoxious to hear "not making any excuses" over and over and over again followed by excuse after excuse after excuse.

BTW russel. I think you're one of the good ones. Nothing but respect for you.

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1 minute ago, Chrissn2001 said:

Why does the word "caught" get some people so upset?  I assume it's because people think it's a way to say the lesser wrestler did the catching?  For guys that claim this sport is soooo tough, I've never seen such a sensitive group the last couple of days.  

I watched a kid from my team in college who was unranked and not good pin the #1 guy on a defensive pin. He caught him. If he would not have "caught" him in that situation the match would have almost certainly gone the other way. By explaining it as being "caught" it gives further context. I don't think it should be applied when someone straps on a cradle and pins a guy, especially when both are returning AA's and ranked closely. Had it not happened, you can't assume the final winner would have been different, or assume it couldn't happen again.

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35 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I did say subsec of the Iowa fanbase.

More precisely you said a large subsec.  So to which large subsection of Iowa's fans are you referring?  Can't be those that post on this forum, because they don't comprise a large subsection of the fandom.  

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4 minutes ago, jchapman said:

More precisely you said a large subsec.  So to which large subsection of Iowa's fans are you referring?  Can't be those that post on this forum, because they don't comprise a large subsection of the fandom.  

All the ones that refer to Cael as Carl.

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5 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Sure its obnoxious. Its also obnoxious to hear "not making any excuses" over and over and over again followed by excuse after excuse after excuse.

BTW russel. I think you're one of the good ones. Nothing but respect for you.

I appreciate it, and obviously saying "not making excuses" is all too common. I have gone off on HR about people claiming illness after every loss. If illness is that common then we need to look at the way we are training or dieting and that comes back to the program. I just don't believe its that prevelent.

At the same time, Lee's regression is unprecedented in the Iowa program. I am not saying no one has ever regressed. Seeing Slaton get slaughtered by Fanthorpe still haunts my dreams. Lee has just shown no fight and no gas tank at all for months now. Say what you want about Brands, but that just doesn't happen that often. That with the fact that there have been hints to injuries, illness, whatever; people are going to start making assumptions because of the abnormality of it. Plus there is precedent for Iowa keeping hush on these things. 

However, I do not see anyone claiming that Picc and Rivera haven't made major improvements this year, and Lee is just sick . They most certainly have and came into this season ready to win titles. I applaud them and their coaches for the obvious scouting they have done. I don't see any Iowa fans disagreeing with that.

What I see on this site from Iowa fans is a defense of both Brands and Lee in response to a lot of baiting. I mean we have one guy repeatedly shouting fire brands. Please. The "excuse" is being used to say there is probably more to the story here, not to reinforce the image of Lee as a superman and not to discredit those who beat him. It is not unique for fans to try to explain "why" when there is such a large deviation from what we are used to seeing. 

 

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Because Lee has a chance - NO really good Penn State guy in his weight.

Valencia - a good Penn State guy in his weight.

So, all the talk is the Penn State guy - everyone else is tth in line or worse... unless you are Coach Brands and then you might, just maybe move up to 4th place in the discussions.

Really, it is Penn State and then nobody for at least three - five places down. 

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6 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I appreciate it, and obviously saying "not making excuses" is all too common. I have gone off on HR about people claiming illness after every loss. If illness is that common then we need to look at the way we are training or dieting and that comes back to the program. I just don't believe its that prevelent.

At the same time, Lee's regression is unprecedented in the Iowa program. I am not saying no one has ever regressed. Seeing Slaton get slaughtered by Fanthorpe still haunts my dreams. Lee has just shown no fight and no gas tank at all for months now. Say what you want about Brands, but that just doesn't happen that often. That with the fact that there have been hints to injuries, illness, whatever; people are going to start making assumptions because of the abnormality of it. Plus there is precedent for Iowa keeping hush on these things. 

However, I do not see anyone claiming that Picc and Rivera haven't made major improvements this year, and Lee is just sick . They most certainly have and came into this season ready to win titles. I applaud them and their coaches for the obvious scouting they have done. I don't see any Iowa fans disagreeing with that.

What I see on this site from Iowa fans is a defense of both Brands and Lee in response to a lot of baiting. I mean we have one guy repeatedly shouting fire brands. Please. The "excuse" is being used to say there is probably more to the story here, not to reinforce the image of Lee as a superman and not to discredit those who beat him. It is not unique for fans to try to explain "why" when there is such a large deviation from what we are used to seeing. 

 

The common response from Iowa fans has been if Spencer was 100% guys like Picc and Rivera are completely written off. They also "take away" from their victories and disrespects these guys. Even if Spencer was at "100%" they guys would push Spencer and be able to beat him. 

And FYI I'm also a person who never believed Zain was unbeatable. Yes he won out this final 3 seasons but I always was on guard for him to take a loss. Same thing goes for Nolf and Nickal for me with this season.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Just now, Mpchillin said:

So about 50 fans total that ran with an autocorrect error, seems kind petty to have such hatred for a program because of this but you do you bro.

Again. No hate for the program. I dont like Tom Brands. As for the autocorrect error? Give me a break. We all know its deliberate.

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

Again. No hate for the program. I dont like Tom Brands. As for the autocorrect error? Give me a break. We all know its deliberate.

So your ruling on the autocorrect joke is: Not Funny ?

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