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Worst Calls, NCAA Finals

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2 hours ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

Hmm...I never noticed how high Hendrick's right elbow was before.

Check the rules on what is included as part of the scapula/shoulder blades......he was a lot flatter than Brent Metcalf vs. Caldwell, when Caldwell hit that spladle and Brent's shoulder blades were up on Caldwell's stomach.  (it was a dual vs. NC State, I believe at Lakewood St. Ed's/quad)

Edited by fadzaev2

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4 hours ago, fadzaev2 said:

Check the rules on what is included as part of the scapula/shoulder blades......he was a lot flatter than Brent Metcalf vs. Caldwell, when Caldwell hit that spladle and Brent's shoulder blades were up on Caldwell's stomach.  (it was a dual vs. NC State, I believe at Lakewood St. Ed's/quad)

I'm familiar with the rule, but you can't see Hendrick's right scapula or shoulder blade in the posted photo.  And I agree that he was a lot flatter than when Metcalf was pinned.  However, that doesn't mean that, therefore, Hendricks must also have  been pinned.  Besides, as you point out, Brent's shoulder blades were up on Caldwell's stomach.  Therefore, the argument can (and has) been made that Brent wasn't really pinned.

I  just don't think the posted photo conclusively shows a pin, especially when considered along with Gimp's comment (who saw the match from the scorer's table).  That said, from watching the video, I think its likely that Hendricks was indeed stuck.  And, if time hadn't expired, I believe Churella would have gotten the call.

 

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15 minutes ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

I'm familiar with the rule, but you can't see Hendrick's right scapula or shoulder blade in the posted photo.  And I agree that he was a lot flatter than when Metcalf was pinned.  However, that doesn't mean that, therefore, Hendricks must also have  been pinned.  Besides, as you point out, Brent's shoulder blades were up on Caldwell's stomach.  Therefore, the argument can (and has) been made that Brent wasn't really pinned.

I  just don't think the posted photo conclusively shows a pin, especially when considered along with Gimp's comment (who saw the match from the scorer's table).  That said, from watching the video, I think its likely that Hendricks was indeed stuck.  And, if time hadn't expired, I believe Churella would have gotten the call.

 

It only has to be a piece of each should blade for a  pin to be called, not the whole bone. That being said, it was sort of a blind call. The most intentional spladle ever witnessed, however.

 

Edited by BadgerMon

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4 minutes ago, BadgerMon said:

It only has to be a piece of each should blade for a  pin to be called, not the whole bone.

 

I agree. Again, I'm familiar with the rule.  The rule book even has a picture that shows the pinning area.   I can't get it to post, but its Illustration #2 in the Appendix.

 

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16 hours ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

I'm familiar with the rule, but you can't see Hendrick's right scapula or shoulder blade in the posted photo.  And I agree that he was a lot flatter than when Metcalf was pinned.  However, that doesn't mean that, therefore, Hendricks must also have  been pinned.  Besides, as you point out, Brent's shoulder blades were up on Caldwell's stomach.  Therefore, the argument can (and has) been made that Brent wasn't really pinned.

I  just don't think the posted photo conclusively shows a pin, especially when considered along with Gimp's comment (who saw the match from the scorer's table).  That said, from watching the video, I think its likely that Hendricks was indeed stuck.  And, if time hadn't expired, I believe Churella would have gotten the call.

 

I had 4-5 sequential photos where you can see the riding time run, and the clock run  down.....it was a good 4 seconds in that position...how long do the shoulder blades have to be down in college wrestling?????!!!!!!  There were other calls in that match that affected the outcome of that match.....I, at one time had made jpegs off of the actual footage of the match....like the phantom takedown....Ryan almost off of the platform, Hendricks never got behind, but got his hand (from out front) behind the arm) and was awarded a takedown....that one, as I remember it was bad...you're going to make me go find it aren't you ....LOL  

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2 hours ago, fadzaev2 said:

I had 4-5 sequential photos where you can see the riding time run, and the clock run  down.....it was a good 4 seconds in that position...how long do the shoulder blades have to be down in college wrestling?????!!!!!!  There were other calls in that match that affected the outcome of that match.....I, at one time had made jpegs off of the actual footage of the match....like the phantom takedown....Ryan almost off of the platform, Hendricks never got behind, but got his hand (from out front) behind the arm) and was awarded a takedown....that one, as I remember it was bad...you're going to make me go find it aren't you ....LOL  

If you can find them I'd like to see the sequential photos.  From the available video (which is pretty grainy) Hendricks looked stuck for about 2.5 seconds to me.  Also, its too bad YouTube has only the first two periods posted.  It'd like to watch the entire match again.  Apparently Churella was up 7-4 going into the third but ended up losing 9-8.  I can't remember exactly what happened in the last period - although I seem to recall a lot of action and more controversy.

churella.gif th?id=OIP.pazFZKI3ZaLIVSav_QwmTQAAAA&pid=15.1&P=0&w=170&h=153

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1 hour ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

If you can find them I'd like to see the sequential photos.  From the available video (which is pretty grainy) Hendricks looked stuck for about 2.5 seconds to me.  Also, its too bad YouTube has only the first two periods posted.  It'd like to watch the entire match again.  Apparently Churella was up 7-4 going into the third but ended up losing 9-8.  I can't remember exactly what happened in the last period - although I seem to recall a lot of action and more controversy.

churella.gif th?id=OIP.pazFZKI3ZaLIVSav_QwmTQAAAA&pid=15.1&P=0&w=170&h=153

Right now themat.com won't let me add any photos....says I've used up my attachment limit????  How do I get space back....haven't figured it out yet.....I may have all those pix AND some jpegs of 1 or 2 other "things"....lol.  I did send a message to themat.com???

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And don't trust the video technology time-wise back then. Note how quickly when Kessel switched to looking to the other should he backed out because time was up. People that saw Caldwell Metcalf live had a different opinion of when Darrion started to circle before the flip than those that only saw it on video. Those times were not tied to the actual clocks.

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jchapman     499

jchapman
   On 2/27/2019 at 8:06 PM,  lu_alum said: 

Lee Kemp referee decision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He scored the only TD in the match and lost the ref decision.

Like

Call a spade a spade it was because he was black.  Edited by Bigboi Trained
Did not copy prior post

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Little known facts:

  • The Yagla-Kemp final was their fourth meeting that year.  Kemp won their first meeting at the Northern Open in OT.  Yagla defeated Kemp in the Wisc-Iowa dual and at the Big 10 Tournament.  (Score in the conference final was 4-0.)
  • The Yagla-Kemp final was Kemp's third match that went into overtime during that year's NCAA tournament  
  • Kemp's first match at that year's NCAA finals was also decided by referee's decision.  He got the nod over unseeded  Mike Taylor of SIU-E after they finished 4-4 in regulation and 1-1 in overtime.

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I do not believe Hendricks was pinned due to time running out. If there were 10 or more seconds left, he almost certainly would have been.

the real problem with that match were a couple of takedowns. Kessel got caught up in the momentum of the match and started calling it with bias. Churella was stalling and Hendricks was getting to his legs AT WILL. However, Churella had GREAT standing single leg defense(the cradle came off that defense) and kept getting it OB. As a result, Hendricks was trying to finish the extended tds at the perimeter. Although the definition of td finishes stretched at the perimeter back then, Kessel just automatically called tds when they went OB when stalling/fleeing was probably the correct call.   A couple fleeing calls could have maybe got that match to OT and, depending on the finish, it probably wouldn’t have been talked about much, if at all, let alone the craziness that ensued. 

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In the technology age, all wrestlers should be wearing a device that covers the pinning area of their shoulders and if they are flat to the mat for the defined period of time (1 full second in college, right?), the fall should be automatically called. And while we're at it, let's get a device that automatically calls stalling, too.

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21 hours ago, KingK0ng said:

And neither was Johny's because Churella's arm was between Hendricks' shoulder and the mat, look where Hendricks' right arm is...on the chest of Churella.

Mr Kong, who cares where Johny's right arm is, you don't need the right arm on the mat to get the pin.  His right shoulder may have been a bit off the mat, but you can see from the photo that his right scapula is down on the mat, unless all the muscles holding the scapula in place are torn loose.  The only possible arguments for  Kessel's behalf are that the photo is a brief time frame under one second-and Hendricks rolled out of that flat position, OR...time ran out.  Fadz sequential photos, taken from right beside the mat, prove both of those possibilities are wrong.  But then there are the takedowns later in the match that elevate Kessel to the GOAT for worst NCAA finals.

 

26548970668_6aff8c861a_o_d.jpg

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Maybe you need some anatomy lessons. The arm is connected to the shoulder. If the arm is high it's likely the shoulder isn't down flat. And nice photoshopping btw. And I don't mean adding Smith and Kessel in the background when Kessel was in the foreground. This isn't even the match itself. This is a different mat and a different round!

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Yeah, looking at the whole situation, I don't find not calling the fall there the least bit egregious.  There were so many factors involved and so little time.  The problem was, Hendricks went on to win the match and the late takedowns, along with the crowd reactions, blew it up to epic proportions.  So, of course, every Hendricks, OkState, Smith detractor, UofM or Churella fan went searching for every way to dismiss the win.  Sadly, Kessel was the easy target.

Churella finally cranks him over with just under 5 secs left, but doesn't adjust enough to settle in until under 3 secs.  By then, ANY ref needs to get into position to see both shoulders and MAKE SURE they are flat at the same time.  Considering how that near side cradle ends up with Churella's body across most of Hendricks near side, it is even that more difficult for Kessel to find that position.  As tight as he had it, I have no doubt he would have been pinned, but I do NOT think he was there for the reasonable amount of time necessary for ANY ref to make the call there.

With that said, the takedowns in the 3rd were simply BAD calls, but like I said, Kessel fell victim to some major influence bias.  Churella was outwrestled by a LARGE margin except for the last 10 secs or so of the 2nd period where he locked up that cradle.  Churella stalled and played ALL defense the entire match and Hendricks was getting to his legs AT WILL. 

I am not a proponent of the step out in college, but that was as close as I would come to say it should have been used!

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6 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Maybe you need some anatomy lessons. The arm is connected to the shoulder. If the arm is high it's likely the shoulder isn't down flat. And nice photoshopping btw. And I don't mean adding Smith and Kessel in the background when Kessel was in the foreground. This isn't even the match itself. This is a different mat and a different round!

The photo on the left is from the below linked Intermat article.  They identify it as the match being discussed - not a different mat and/or a different round.

http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/2367

hendrickschurella1.jpg  26548970668_6aff8c861a_o_d.jpg

    Pinned? (Photo/Johnnie Johnson)

Edited by HurricaneWrestling2

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