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Marcus Cisero

How Title IX Destroyed SEC College Wrestling

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9 minutes ago, ionel said:

There are 14 teams in the SEC, can you begin by listing when each university lost its wrestling program?

Except for alabama, it seems like it happened right after they won the Mattown. Tenn in Dec 1984. I think Georgia and Florida earler. Was LSU the last to go? They were very distant from any other program. I don't think Miss,, Miss St, so Carol, Tex A+M, Vandy ever, or in the last 50 years had programs

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1 minute ago, RichB said:

Except for alabama, it seems like it happened right after they won the Mattown. Tenn in Dec 1984. I think Georgia and Florida earler. Was LSU the last to go? They were very distant from any other program. I don't think Miss,, Miss St, so Carol, Tex A+M, Vandy ever, or in the last 50 years had programs

I'm looking for a simple list of the 14 and the year dropped (if it happened) in chronological order, not a bunch of folks guesses.  If the OP has a case and done his/her research should be easy to put together.

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15 minutes ago, RichB said:

Except for alabama, it seems like it happened right after they won the Mattown. Tenn in Dec 1984. I think Georgia and Florida earler. Was LSU the last to go? They were very distant from any other program. I don't think Miss,, Miss St, so Carol, Tex A+M, Vandy ever, or in the last 50 years had programs

I don't think South Carloina was even in the SEC in the time frame we're talking about, Texas A&M for sure wasn't.  

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I wrote this back in September of 2017 after weeks of extensive research.   This is everything I've been able to find out regarding SEC wrestling. 

https://johnnythompsonnum1.blogspot.com/2017/09/solving-mystery-that-was-sec.html

Here's what I understand in regards to adding/dropping wrestling per team.

Kentucky pretty much added a wrestling program because of Fletcher Carr. They wanted him as a football coach and his conditions for coming in and coaching football were that the University had to have a wrestling team and he was to be named the head coach.  That happened in the fall of 1974 and upon his departure from Kentucky, there too went the wrestling program. 

As to Auburn, they began wrestling right around the time Umbach became the coach in the early 1940's to my knowledge.  Their first qualifier in 1949 and five NCAA qualifers, two of which were All Americans their last season in 1981.  According to wrestlers on the team that I have talked with, the decision to eliminate wrestling was strictly because A.D./Football coach Pat Dye didn't care for wrestling and thought that the wrestling room would make a great training facility for the football program.  

Heard similar stories about Bear Bryant in regards to the Alabama wrestling program. 

 

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On 3/3/2019 at 9:38 AM, Mr. Peepers said:

So I watched the video, and I feel it begs the question- why did Title IX kill wrestling in the SEC but not the B10?  The law is national, no?  The guy in the video does explain how important football is in the SEC and how most of the schools field very large teams with boated budgets.  Fair enough I suppose, but then how can schools like Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State filed large and successful football teams while also allowing wrestling to thrive?  Strangely, after speaking about the size and cost of football, the guy in the video says we "shouldn't blame football."  When the video ended I was more confused than when it began.

You're not going to find too many college wrestling fans willing to defend Title IX, and I will not do so.  I do not like the law.  It came from a good place, but its application is wrong.  Yes, it has provided opportunity for women- but often times these opportunities have been at the expense of opportunities for men.  That said, and as someone else already pointed out, many (most?) of these SEC schools could easily afford to add additional non-revenue programs, for both men and women.  But they don't and they won't because they would rather use the money for mahogany lockers and flat screens in the showers or whatever the hell else they can use to get that 5-star to commit. 

That all said, I think an even bigger threat is the movement to pay college football players.  This will result inn even less revenue for the other sports, and the ensuing arms race very well may kill off all non-revenue men's sports. 

In the Big 10 all schools have to field all teams. That is not the case for other conferences such as the ACC (only some schools have wrestling). So if the Big 10 wanted to kill wrestling because of Title IX, all the schools would have to eliminate it. I think the expansion targets should be the Pac 12 and the ACC.

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14 hours ago, kgschalhoub said:

In the Big 10 all schools have to field all teams. That is not the case for other conferences such as the ACC (only some schools have wrestling). So if the Big 10 wanted to kill wrestling because of Title IX, all the schools would have to eliminate it. I think the expansion targets should be the Pac 12 and the ACC.

Jason Bryant I believe has debunked this multiple times on here (that all B1G must have wrestling)

Edited by KTG119

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6 hours ago, rpbobcat said:

That doesn't match the article I read.

if I remember correctly ,it was in either Time or the New York Times Magazine.

It said they had enough pledges to cover the team's budget.

It also said Syracuse made it clear it was dropping the program, whether they raised the money or not.

That was the whole point of the article,the impact of Title IX on that sport.

I tried to find the article in Time's archives,but couldn't.

If they got it wrong,I stand corrected.

 

Well, as I am wearing a Save Syracuse Wrestling T shirt (actually it says on the front "Syracuse Wrestling 75 years of tradition" and on the back, " a Tradition worth Saving- SU Wrestling") I feel more confident in my memory than yours. They may have had enough money to fund for one more non scholarship year, but they had four and failed. Doubly bad in that Syracuse was the strongest team, in terms of NCAA champs, dropped.

Yes Marquette and Notre Dame were fully funded and dropped. Many of us have hurled vindictle words toward South Bend.

This article gives the entire history of the SEC. Simply 13 teams west of the mountains broke off from the SOuthern Conference. Three left, Georgia Tech, Tulane, University of the South West(Suwannee) left. SC, Ark, Tex A+M, Missouri were added circa 1990 and 2012. The span of program life is not for me to say. Kentucky's program was ephemeral. Some teams may be reported as existent, but really weren't. (The other USC, the one in Los Angeles was sometimes reported as a score of Zero in the PAC 10, but never had a team. I assume they have something like an all sports cup, and a score of zero for a non team seems relevant. 

Florida was to host the NCAA tournament(around 1980??), but they dropped the program.  

 

Edited by RichB

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32 minutes ago, kgschalhoub said:

In the Big 10 all schools have to field all teams. That is not the case for other conferences such as the ACC (only some schools have wrestling). So if the Big 10 wanted to kill wrestling because of Title IX, all the schools would have to eliminate it. I think the expansion targets should be the Pac 12 and the ACC.

Please explain how Wisconsin does not have a baseball team.

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I think some schools just think it is to cold for spring baseball. Colgate and Syracuse no longer have baseball. (syracuse looks to have dropped the sport prior to T9. Minnesota use to play in the Humphrey dome.

In a perfect world all 3 NCAA divisions would divide into warm and cold subdivisions for Bball and Sball. 

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1 hour ago, RichB said:

I think some schools just think it is to cold for spring baseball. Colgate and Syracuse no longer have baseball. (syracuse looks to have dropped the sport prior to T9. Minnesota use to play in the Humphrey dome.

In a perfect world all 3 NCAA divisions would divide into warm and cold subdivisions for Bball and Sball. 

Minnesota made it to the Super-Regional last year, can’t get much colder than the Twin Cities.

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5 hours ago, KTG119 said:

Jason Bryant I believe has debunked this multiple times on her (that all B1G must have wrestling)

The only conference that requires wrestling for membership is the American Rivers Conference (formerly known as the Iowa Conference) in Division 3  

Northwestern doesn’t have the running sports (XC and T&F), Minnesota doesn’t have field hockey, a number of schools don’t field lacrosse or ice hockey. As shown above, Wisconsin doesn’t have baseball  

I do my best to prevent the spread of misinformation by trying to educate, but sometimes these myths just keep being retold  

 

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Well it might be that creating a Women's wrestling program may be a way to save or reinstate/create a Men's wrestling program. I think we ( probably ) need Women's wrestling to not only save college wrestling, but our sport as well. With Women's/Girls wrestling is helping bring new participants, interest and all the rest that entails. 

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10 hours ago, jchapman said:

Minnesota made it to the Super-Regional last year, can’t get much colder than the Twin Cities.

U Minnesota lists US Bank Stadium as secondary Stadium. So exactly the point i made with Humphreydome  

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1 hour ago, RichB said:

U Minnesota lists US Bank Stadium as secondary Stadium. So exactly the point i made with Humphreydome  

Wisconsin would have likely play games at US Bank if they had a team last year too.  It was the Big Ten host site for the games in the Big Ten/Pac-12 challenge.  There were nine games played at the venue over three days.

Minnesota doesn't have any games scheduled for US Bank this year.  

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21 hours ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

I wrote this back in September of 2017 after weeks of extensive research.   This is everything I've been able to find out regarding SEC wrestling. 

https://johnnythompsonnum1.blogspot.com/2017/09/solving-mystery-that-was-sec.html

Here's what I understand in regards to adding/dropping wrestling per team.

Kentucky pretty much added a wrestling program because of Fletcher Carr. They wanted him as a football coach and his conditions for coming in and coaching football were that the University had to have a wrestling team and he was to be named the head coach.  That happened in the fall of 1974 and upon his departure from Kentucky, there too went the wrestling program. 

As to Auburn, they began wrestling right around the time Umbach became the coach in the early 1940's to my knowledge.  Their first qualifier in 1949 and five NCAA qualifers, two of which were All Americans their last season in 1981.  According to wrestlers on the team that I have talked with, the decision to eliminate wrestling was strictly because A.D./Football coach Pat Dye didn't care for wrestling and thought that the wrestling room would make a great training facility for the football program.  

Heard similar stories about Bear Bryant in regards to the Alabama wrestling program. 

 

Yet coaches like Bill Belichick actively look for wrestlers and say the experience is a big help in many ways.

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22 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

Yet coaches like Bill Belichick actively look for wrestlers and say the experience is a big help in many ways.

High school.  I know when I did a report on Texas wrestling years and years ago, that's something I looked into.  It's part of the reason high school wrestling has grown in the lone star state.  Football coaches see the benefits of wrestling in high school and all of the positives it does for their athletes.  

Yet, that's high school wrestling.  They don't care one iota about collegiate wrestling.  Matter of fact with some, they like that their schools don't have wrestling programs because they they know their kids who want to stay home and go to school, will be playing football.  Sorta easy to make the choice between football or wrestling in college when none of the colleges in the area have wrestling.     

 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

High school.  I know when I did a report on Texas wrestling years and years ago, that's something I looked into.  It's part of the reason high school wrestling has grown in the lone star state.  Football coaches see the benefits of wrestling in high school and all of the positives it does for their athletes.  

Yet, that's high school wrestling.  They don't care one iota about collegiate wrestling.  Matter of fact with some, they like that their schools don't have wrestling programs because they they know their kids who want to stay home and go to school, will be playing football.  Sorta easy to make the choice between football or wrestling in college when none of the colleges in the area have wrestling.     

 

And there are only two weight classes over 200lbs

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