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MSU158

Askren fight don’t open if you don’t want results

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6 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Did you watch the flo movie on him?  He LITERALLY said he wasn’t “strong”.  Now, he became a master at using leverage to compensate, but he has NEVER been conventionally strong. 

This is NOT true and Askren is clearly BS'ing (I don't watch Flo anything). You can see his strength up a weight against Kish, who was clearly jacked at a higher weight. Askren was probably one of the naturally strongest wrestlers to come along in a generation. Tendon strength strong is far different than beauty muscle strong.

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9 minutes ago, scribe said:

This is NOT true and Askren is clearly BS'ing (I don't watch Flo anything). You can see his strength up a weight against Kish, who was clearly jacked at a higher weight. Askren was probably one of the naturally strongest wrestlers to come along in a generation. Tendon strength strong is far different than beauty muscle strong.

Too funny. You don’t watch the man say something and yet you can clearly call him a liar?  Brilliant argument.  

Again, he didn’t wrestle with strength and essentially explained that in the movie. He used leverage and positioning which can be a more effective substitute for conventional strength if used correctly. He was extremely cerebral and knew how to position himself throughout essentially every exchange so that the counters were always there to negate any postioning/strength advantages his opponents had. In fact, I would argue that strength took most of Askren’s abilities away when he went up to wrestle Kish. On top of that, I would argue that Kish wasn’t exactly s brute strength guy at that weight either. When he ran into Varner, Varner’s brute strength put Kish down. 

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2 hours ago, TobusRex said:

 

You mentioning Brands reminds me of another Hawkeye wrestler. Brent Metcalf. I always thought he'd be a complete monster if he went MMA. Glad he didn't, he seems like a good guy and I don't want his brain scrambled.

Brent Metcalf was definitely a beast and probably would have done well in MMA.

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If anyone got screwed it was Askren.  He was denied the opportunity to pop Lawlers head like a festered zit.  Lawler was not moving  or defending at all...just resting I'm sure...lol.

Lawler had his opportunity and failed. Ben took all he had to offer and survived. Once he was on top it was mere moments before he was locked in.

Game over..ref saved Lawler of some serious brain damage.

Edited by tbert
Correction

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

Too funny. You don’t watch the man say something and yet you can clearly call him a liar?  Brilliant argument.  

Yes. 

 

And do you believe everything you see on the internet?

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If Askren said he’s weak, he probably means in the gym. I believe him on that. 

But he has spent his entire life wrestling HARD, and that undoubtedly develops solid functional strength.

Add to that his incredible sense of proprioception and his grandmaster-level understanding positioning and leverage, and you got yourself a problem. 

Edited by Katie

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2 hours ago, tbert said:

If anyone got screwed it was Askren.  He was denied the opportunity to pop Lawlers head like a festered zit.  Lawler was not moving  or defending at all...just resting I'm sure...lol.

Lawler had his opportunity and failed. Ben took all he had to offer and survived. Once he was on top it was mere moments before he was locked in.

Game over..ref saved Lawler of some serious brain damage.

At the post-fight presser, there were three opinions expressed about Askren’s technical submission:

The rep from the Nevada Athletic Commission said Lawler was clearly out, even if only momentarily. He said it’s possible Lawler wasn’t even aware he was out. He noted that Lawler’s arm just dropped and dangled there and that Lawler didn’t respond when he ref asked if he was ok  

Lawler said he wasn’t out. He said he couldn’t hear the ref because Askren’s hold covered his ears (which is why he didn’t respond to the ref). He said he thought about slamming Ben, but at the moment was waiting for him to burn his arm strength out. Lawler wanted a rematch.

Askren said his job is to fight, not to be the ref. He didn’t think both of Lawler’s ears were covered, and he saw Lawler being unresponsive to the ref. He also said that every fighter is instructed to demonstrate to the ref that they are actively in a fight and defending themself. Ben did not want a rematch. He wants to winner of Till-Mavidal. 

In a post-fight interview, Dana said he was going to do the Lawler-Askren fight again. 

Edited by Katie

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31 minutes ago, scribe said:

Yes. 

 

And do you believe everything you see on the internet?

I believe a guy that is describing himself when that description in no way benefits him.  Oh, you would also be calling his head coach a liar as he essentially said the exact same thing.....

Edited by MSU158

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12 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Thanks for posting that video. Askren got very, very lucky to win that.

 

Here's why I dislike MMA taking our wrestlers.  I see this fate in line for many of them after their MMA careers.

 

I get the mentality but I know people that fight MMA that played basketball in high school. They tell tell me that they wished that they wrestled instead it was a popularity thing back then. I think kids that might be considering MMA will take up wrestling because of the strong results from fighters with a wrestling background. I can’t seem to fault anyone for trying to make money for something they are good at. Unless you are #1 in wrestling there is not much cash to go around.

Edited by Sublime607

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12 hours ago, whyme25 said:

Funky got his DONKEY kicked and benefited from a horrible call.

it was a good call. we don't need to see people dying in the octagon. when his arm went limp, they HAVE to stop it or the fight commission will stop sanctioning fights. He fought back after being nearly done. Our 2008 and 2012 olympic teams are KICKING ASS!!!  

 

Caldwell 

Chandler

Bader

Cejudo

Covington

Cormier

Dillashaw

Woodley (Until last night)

Between UFC and Belator, our former D1 guys are kicking ass.  If you want to count lower division wrestling, you can include Jones and Usman (probably others).

Yet Jiu Jitsu gyms are the ones benefiting from the growth of MMA.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Does USAW have a marketing problem?  YES.  Stop hiring former wrestlers; go hire professionals. We are sitting on a mountain of gold but we are milling copper. 

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I agree with MSU (and Askren himself) that Ben is not conventionally strong, i.e. he is unimpressive in the weight room (I have seen it). But Askren has retarded static strength, i.e. the ability to hold a maximal amount of force for a long time. He's the last person on Earth I'd want to be chocked by because he can hold that choke at "first period strength" for a very long time and has tremendous grip strength as well. This is how he makes up for not being particularly explosive or strong in the weightlifting sense.

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3 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Askren manhandled Lawler with that choke.  I find it laughable that Lawler said he was just waiting for Ben to get tired.  Askren would have ripped his head off it went longer. 

He woudl've literally strangled Lawler (or anyone in that position) to death. See my comment above about how Askren is "strong".

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2 hours ago, cornercoach said:

... i worked 32 years and never got knocked out at work - this "sport" should be banned- when/if it is, all of our medical premiums will go down......

you are right - people shouldn't have free will. hows was that bernie/warren/hillary rally this weekend?  

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  In terms of Dana White.  Dana is a billionaire and doesn't care about Askren at all. He doesn't have some big conspiracy to ruin his life. Ben smartly is playing up a feud between them to try to get media exposure.  He's very good with that.  Dana probably just sees a boring fighter who almost got knocked out in his debut.  The only people that REALLY matter to him right now are Conor, Khabib, and Jones.  Those three fighters are worth more to the UFC than everyone else combined.   

 

 You're right about Dana seeing a boring fighter. Any other fighter with Ben's credentials would have been given a shot even if it was assumed they wouldn't be successful (Kimbo Slice, anyone?). But Dana knew Ben's style wouldn't be popular and he didn't want to take the risk of having to promote Ben as a main card. All Dana cares about are exciting fighters who will stand up and trade blows because that is what sells. Now that Ben is passed or at the very end of his prime fighting years, he thought he could set him up to fail so he could toot his horn about being right about Askren the whole time. He was wrong and now complaining the ref stopped a fight early when a guy was passed out. Ben should be working his way up the ranks but Dana wants a rematch that doesn't benefit Askren at all. The ironic part is, Askren's fights will probably draw well because the non-wrestling fans will want to see him get his ass kicked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

I'm not a Robbie Lawler fan- I called him a roided up freak earlier in this thread.  Askren is going to run into a lot of trouble in the UFC based off of that fight.  He is completely one dimensional, and the only thing impressive about that performance was that it showed he is able to take a beating and keep fighting. The problem with his strategy of walking into punches until he can force a takedown is that the human brain can only take so many punches.  The brain is not able to regenerate tissue as effectively as the rest of the body, so the damage really adds up over time.  

Askren was one of the all time great college wrestlers because he was able to develop a truly unique and original style to go with him being extraordinarily dangerous in all three position.  

He was a very good, but not as exceptional international wrestler because his style did not translate as effectively to freestyle. 

In terms of MMA, he completely lacks any standup ability or power.  Also, he is slow.   Those are glaring weaknesses that were just exploited in the first minute of this fight and will continue to be exploited until he retires. MMA requires more athleticism, quickness, and explosiveness than NCAA wrestling...and the consequences are an order of magnitude more grave (permanent brain damage).  I think he can beat anyone in the division, but his style will also leave him exposed to getting knocked out by almost anyone in the top 10.  

Did you watch the fight? He took zero damage on his feet

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Congrats to Askren! Lawler is still an animal.

I can definitely understand why Lawler and his fans are upset but still think Herb Dean had to stop it there. Split second decision to make there.

As far as Askren having boring fights, I thought Askren vs Lawler was way more exciting than the Usman fight or the Jones fight.

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32 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

You're right about Dana seeing a boring fighter. Any other fighter with Ben's credentials would have been given a shot even if it was assumed they wouldn't be successful (Kimbo Slice, anyone?). But Dana knew Ben's style wouldn't be popular and he didn't want to take the risk of having to promote Ben as a main card. All Dana cares about are exciting fighters who will stand up and trade blows because that is what sells. Now that Ben is passed or at the very end of his prime fighting years, he thought he could set him up to fail so he could toot his horn about being right about Askren the whole time. He was wrong and now complaining the ref stopped a fight early when a guy was passed out. Ben should be working his way up the ranks but Dana wants a rematch that doesn't benefit Askren at all. The ironic part is, Askren's fights will probably draw well because the non-wrestling fans will want to see him get his ass kicked.

Dana White is a douchebag.

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