FS Rules Question

[wrestlingnerd 1,992]

Chamizo's first point against JB at the Kolov was seemingly a penalty point for hands to the face. However, I was under the impression that when you are defending a russian 2-1 tie, which Chamizo had on JB, you could post on the guy's head to get separation and nullify the tie. JB didn't punch or slap the post on, just extended his arm against the side of Chamizo's head. Is that counter now illegal, or did I miss something in the scoring?

Edited March 3 by wrestlingnerd

[SBPCOACH 1]

You answered the question, hands to the head OK, hands to the face not good. On a more technical note, he has to look to take control of the position not "flee" or "block". Was a frustrating but good call.


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[wrestlingnerd 1,992]

The replay was from the wrong angle so it was hard to see, but I was under the impression that JB's hand was on the side of the head, not face. I noticed JB stopped doing that counter for the rest of the match.

[GoNotQuietly 635]

It is fleeing the hold to post away from a 2-on-1 like that without advancing, and it is one of the better rules around, imo

[Eagle26 232]

Good question... looked like simply posting on the side of the head like everyone does to defend the Russian. I have never seen that called before, so I was shocked that ref called it. Maybe the changed the rule, but I’m guessing this particular ref just misinterpreted it.

[Eagle26 232]

3 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

It is fleeing the hold to post away from a 2-on-1 like that without advancing, and it is one of the better rules around, imo

Just missed your post... A fleeing the hold call would make sense there. Maybe I am stuck in folk style mode, but I just never noticed that called before

[SBPCOACH 1]

Yes, it's a fleeing the hold call, tough to interpret just like "negative wrestling", similar to using your head to block.


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[GoNotQuietly 635]

From the latest rulebook:

If a wrestler is blocking, keeping his head down on his opponent chest, interlocking fingers, or in general avoiding open wrestling in standing position (refusing to come back on a straighter upper body position), the referee will determine this wrestler as being negative. Negative Wrestling describes every action which is potentially dangerous to the opponent or contrary to the basic principle to provide an offensive and spectacular way of wrestling (e.g. interlocking fingers, avoiding contact). Negative Wrestling must be stated by the referee upon the first clear sign of it (e.g. "Red, no fingers!”) and needs to be confirmed by the mat chairman. Once confirmed, Negative Wrestling will be declared immediately and a caution (0) and 1 point in Freestyle and a caution (0) and 2 points in Greco-Roman is awarded to the opponent. Negative Wrestling as defined above and in Articles 48-51 must not be penalized with Passivity Call or a Total Passivity. Passivity and Negative Wrestling have to be distinguished from each other. It is not possible to penalize Passivity with a Negative Wrestling call or vice versa. Passivity and Negative Wrestling are distinctly different

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/sites/default/files/2018-12/wrestling_rules.pdf

Edited March 3 by GoNotQuietly

[GoNotQuietly 635]

  Then there is a separete section on Fleeing, with the same basica penalties:

Fleeing a hold occurs when the defending wrestler openly refuses contact in order to prevent his opponent from executing or initiating a hold. These situations arise in both the standing and "parterre" positions. They may occur in the central wrestling area or from the central wrestling area to the orange zone. Fleeing a hold shall be penalized in the following manner:

Fleeing the hold in standing wrestling: - 1 caution against the wrestler at fault (0) - 1 point to the opponent in Freestyle Wrestling - 2 points to the opponent in Greco-Roman Wrestling - Restart in standing position

[wrestlingnerd 1,992]

I suppose that rule makes sense but I don't think I've ever seen anyone get docked a penalty for that defense and I've seen it a lot. Maybe my memory fails me, but I thought it was a non-standard call and immediately assumed it was related to hands to the face. Didn't even think of the alternate interpretation above. 

[Ching 154]

It's not really practical, but wouldn't it be great if, as a fan, we knew exactly what was called on every score? Kind of like football where the ref explicitly, verbally and with hand motions, explains everything.

[GranbyTroll 352]

Language barriers probably probity that, although  there is a sort of international wrestling pidgin. You hear some English "no fingers" mixed with French "parterre" and Russian "dewai dewai." Maybe it could be possible.  

[Housebuye 1,384]

19 hours ago, GranbyTroll said:

Language barriers probably probity that, although  there is a sort of international wrestling pidgin. You hear some English "no fingers" mixed with French "parterre" and Russian "dewai dewai." Maybe it could be possible.  

Hand signals are the way to go. It also means we don’t have to hear them, which is easy to misinterpret. We see it across baseball, football, and other mainstream sports. 

 

[GranbyTroll 352]

Okay, but what's the signal for fleeing the hold, vs fleeing the mat, vs passivity, vs penalty for illegal hold, vs two hands on the head etc.