Chandler Rogers Odd Man Out....

[Idaho 713]

Chandler Rogers lost a best of 3 wrestle off to Joe Smith who moved down to challenge. It appears he may have wrestled his last match for the Cowboys. John Smith said he wants his best team on the mat for the NCAA. Article on Flo says Chandler is blocked at 174 because of Jacobe...but Joe Smith wasn't blocked at 165 by Chandler, he was able to go down and challenge. Does Smith afford the same opportunity for Chandler to go up to 174 and challenge Jacobe at 174 that he gave Joe to go down to challenge at 165? If he wants "the best team on the mat" for the NCAA doesn't he have to do this? Or is this just Daddy giving his boy the opportunity that nobody else gets. OR did I miss a wrestle-off with Jacobe vs Chandler? Nevermind that it's 5 days before tourney time. Poor management of this situation IMO. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Idaho

[spladle 179]

While it doesn't seem fair at face value, Smith can pretty much field whatever team he wants.  I am not privy to the room dynamics or politics and I doubt we will ever get a full story.

[hammerlockthree 1,879]

If Smith was crooked this would have been over in december

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by hammerlockthree

[newuser69 14]

This is what I would classify as "fair."

However, I'd also classify settling this with a Redshirt Senior the week of conference tourneys as "disgusting."

Say what you will, you shouldn't do your people like that. 

[TexasForever 0]

There’s no better way to decide who goes at Big12s. Chandler had a fair shake to beat JoJo and win the spot. Just another reason that wrestling is the greatest sport in the world. No opinions on who’s better, let the athletes decide. 

For what it’s worth, I think Chandler would’ve been a better option at NCAA’s. I think having to make weight three days in a row is going to take its toll on Smith. 

[Idaho 713]

19 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

If Smith was crooked this would have been over in december

 

If Smith were a man of his word and believes what he says then there would be another wrestle off for 174 to put the best team on the mat....not a special created situation for only his son. 

[KCMO2 593]

If they have legit title hopes, then make the move, if not then it's just a dick move.  He's wrestled 138 matches for your program, and then you toss him aside right before the post-season his senior year.

 

[Billyhoyle 1,948]

You put the best wrestler on the mat.  In the words of Vision Quest, it's the most fair system in the world.  Smith should be the guy at 165 if he won the wrestle off.  I do agree that Rogers should have the opportunity to challenge for 174.  

Edited March 5, 2019 by Billyhoyle

[ionel 1,146]

5 minutes ago, Idaho said:

If Smith were a man of his word and believes what he says then there would be another wrestle off for 174 to put the best team on the mat....not a special created situation for only his son. 

From previous info, pretty sure they already know that result.

[Idaho 713]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

From previous info, pretty sure they already know that result.

That could be as I put in the original post that there may have been a previous wrestle off. Was there a previous one between Smith and Rogers? 

[Perry 1,175]

Some of the posts here are pretty ridiculous. There was a best of three challenge match and it sounds like Smith is noticeably better and earned the spot. This is what happens when you have a lot of talent and not enough weight classes for everyone to get in. Is it unfair to ver that he will ride the pine while berge goes? No, that's just how it is.

[TobusRex 1,817]

Too bad. I liked watching Chandler. Can't fault John because Chandler lost the ranking matches. I bet they were great matches to watch.

[TobusRex 1,817]

Just saw in another thread that Chandler is the #3 seed at 165 pounds. OSU had ranking matches AFTER the seeding was done for the Big 12 tourney? That's weird. Do they reseed 165 completely now or what?

[cmsu34 16]

40 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Just saw in another thread that Chandler is the #3 seed at 165 pounds. OSU had ranking matches AFTER the seeding was done for the Big 12 tourney? That's weird. Do they reseed 165 completely now or what?

If Rodgers doesn’t go his automatic bid is gone and 165 goes down to 5 bids. As far as the seeding goes that’ll be interesting to see what the conference decides to do.

[unbiased 462]

If Joe can make weight he will have no matches at 165 (no wins) and therefore shouldn't be seeded. Even if he makes weight and wins his conference his seed at Nationals is going to be terrible and will hit a good wrestler early. If the cut is an issue for him he could be done sooner then later.

[ThorsteinV 75]

5 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Just saw in another thread that Chandler is the #3 seed at 165 pounds. OSU had ranking matches AFTER the seeding was done for the Big 12 tourney? That's weird. Do they reseed 165 completely now or what?

While those were presented as brackets, they were actually pre-seeds. As such, they’re subject to change. 

[TobusRex 1,817]

58 minutes ago, unbiased said:

If Joe can make weight he will have no matches at 165 (no wins) and therefore shouldn't be seeded. Even if he makes weight and wins his conference his seed at Nationals is going to be terrible and will hit a good wrestler early. If the cut is an issue for him he could be done sooner then later.

 

If Joe wins the Big 12 the, presumably, he'd jump Ashworth in the rankings. I think Ashworth is ranked #9, so Joe would , again presumably, be at LEAST the #9 seed at NCAAs. And that's kind of a worst case scenario if he wins Big 12.

I see Joe being a #6 or #7 seed at NCAAs, assuming he wins the Big 12.

[TobusRex 1,817]

4 minutes ago, ThorsteinV said:

While those were presented as brackets, they were actually pre-seeds. As such, they’re subject to change. 

Ah...pre seeds.

Thanks much. That removes some of the weirdness of the situation.

[fadzaev2 312]

I saw this coming a loooong time ago with these guys out of the lineup, and shuffling them around a little bit, looking for answers.  I'm a friend on John Smith's, and I knew he was in a  tough spot.....off the mat, a no win situation....everyone wasn't going to be happy.  Jacobe went up to 184 for awhile, Joe in at 174 and so on.  Interviews with John on Flo about this after the Iowa dual, and John saying more than once, at that time, "we'll know in about 10 days".  Then, he did say, Jacobe WILL be the 174 pounder.  I don't normally cheer for the Cowboys, but I have always had some favorites over time, one of them was Alan Fried, I like Picc, Fix and Kaid right now....been following them for a couple of years.  I do like JoJo/Joe as well.  Enjoyed Chandler as well, but I did figure it was going to come down to a wrestleoff, and hoped that it would be 2 out of 3, and not just one match.  If I remember right, more than once, Gable was in a situation with an all-american in the lineup, and based on performance, put another guy in.....there wasn't the same social media back then.....would he have been criticized on here too???  John Smith will go down as one of the all-time greatest coaches in college wrestling.....I think he knows what he's doing, and wants the best for his Cowboys.  (Chandler bowed to the crowd in all 4 directions after his win against Iowa....I wonder if there was anything to that, and I thought that right then, because I saw this coming).  30 years ago, I took my family, right at Christmas time, ironically, to Pittsburgh to watch John Smith wrestle the great Sergei Belaglozov in a $10,000 match....it was a dual USA vs. USSR.  The other feature match was Nate Carr vs. another all-time great, Arson Fadzaev for $5,000.  As John began to wrestle, my son who was 4 years old at the time, stood up and cheered "Go John Smith, Go USA".....I say "Go John Smith, Go Cowboys".

[unbiased 462]

57 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

 

If Joe wins the Big 12 the, presumably, he'd jump Ashworth in the rankings. I think Ashworth is ranked #9, so Joe would , again presumably, be at LEAST the #9 seed at NCAAs. And that's kind of a worst case scenario if he wins Big 12.

I see Joe being a #6 or #7 seed at NCAAs, assuming he wins the Big 12.

In 2015 Cody Brewer was 15-1 going into Big 12's and was the second seed behind Earl Hall (who I believe was ranked in the top 5 in the country). Brewer beat Hall and was the Big 12 champ. Brewer was then seeded 13 at Nationals. Hall was seeded 6th. These are far from the same scenario but I would think that this would prove that Joe wouldn't get as high of a seed as some might think.

[TobusRex 1,817]

33 minutes ago, unbiased said:

In 2015 Cody Brewer was 15-1 going into Big 12's and was the second seed behind Earl Hall (who I believe was ranked in the top 5 in the country). Brewer beat Hall and was the Big 12 champ. Brewer was then seeded 13 at Nationals. Hall was seeded 6th. These are far from the same scenario but I would think that this would prove that Joe wouldn't get as high of a seed as some might think.

You do make a good point. The seeding process at NCAAs is pretty damned stupid sometimes. We should revisit this issue prior to NCAAs and see how it turns out.

Edited March 5, 2019 by TobusRex

[fadzaev2 312]

34 minutes ago, unbiased said:

In 2015 Cody Brewer was 15-1 going into Big 12's and was the second seed behind Earl Hall (who I believe was ranked in the top 5 in the country). Brewer beat Hall and was the Big 12 champ. Brewer was then seeded 13 at Nationals. Hall was seeded 6th. These are far from the same scenario but I would think that this would prove that Joe wouldn't get as high of a seed as some might think.

All of this, made me go back, in my mind, to the 1994 NCAA Championships, and dig up some fun reading.....it just goes to show you, that this is why we wrestle....a lot of things can happen at the NCAA Championships, and this particular year, a very young coach named John Smith did have something very special happen....and this is why we will still wrestle all the matches in Pittburgh....you just don't know until it's all said and done.   https://pistolsfiringblog.com/a-look-at-mark-branchs-1994-ncaa-title-run-at-osu/

[unbiased 462]

3 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

You do make a good point. The seeding process at NCAAs is pretty damned stupid sometimes. We should revisit this issue prior to NCAAs and see how it turns out.

On the other side of this, Kyle Snyder could have been 0-0 going into Big Tens in his Sophomore year and won that tournament and wouldn't have been any lower than a two seed. Joe Smith didn't happen to win a world gold recently did he?

[boconnell 1,416]

1. Smith didn't come down earlier because an injury forced 3 guys to wrestle out of their weight class for the team. Without the injury to Weigel, Rodgers loses his spot at the Scuffle.

2.  Smith won 2 straight over Rodgers.  This was disappointing to me as a fan (Rodgers is my favorite Cowboy), but it was far from unexpected.  Nobody thought Rodgers could beat Smith (or Jacobe Smith) for that matter.  That's why many fans assumed the Iowa dual was his last match and that's why they moved guys around to let Rodgers go out with a win.  It also explains the emotion and celebration after the pin.

3.  Smith better show up at Big 12s and NCAAs after unseating an absolute fan favorite.  

Edited March 5, 2019 by boconnell

[steamboat_charlie v2 939]

It's an unfortunate situation, especially considering Rogers is a senior, but Smith is the better wrestler.  I've seen a lot of talk here and elsewhere that "Rogers always shows up at NCAA's."  And Joe doesn't?  He's never performed below seed either.