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Jimmy Cinnabon

Is Shakur Rasheed overrated at #2?

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Lol, nice try.  As I said, I am not a big fan of Venz.  He IS dangerous, but spaghetti wrestling nearly always favors a PSU guy.  Remember, my argument hasn't been Venz beating Rasheed, it has been whether or not Rasheed deserves to be seeded over Venz and Parker.....


How about Cenzo/Bull if they meet up here? Would you take that bet?


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1 hour ago, pish6969 said:

 


Would you like to bet your posting privileges on the Shak/Venz match? If so I’ll take the bet


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No? I’m a Rasheed fan and of course he can what Venz, but he hasn’t proven that yet. I expect it is about as even as lee vs McKenna 

RBY could win 133. He has the talent to beat anyone. I wouldn’t support him being ranked 2nd however and I think he has about the same chance to make the Big10 finals as Rasheed. I won’t be shocked if either happens, but the data doesn’t support it yet. 

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2 minutes ago, pish6969 said:

 


How about Cenzo/Bull if they meet up here? Would you take that bet?


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My heart says yes, but my mind definitely says no.  Remember, I took a ton of heat on HR for saying Joseph was still a step ahead of Marinelli and that was right after Alex beat him.  I don't like the matchup, as long as Joseph doesn't get aggressive.  If Joseph wrestles Alex like he did IMAR at the past 2 NCAA's, I don't think Alex can beat him.  Now, if Joseph tries to press the offense, I do think Alex could catch him, similar to the last time.  But, I would pick Joseph over him if/when they wrestle.

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My final point..Housebuy and MSU both basically admit, they’d take Shak over Venz.

If that’s the case why should be there be an argument where he’s seeded? IMO seeds should reflect the best guys in order so that no one gets screwed with a bad early round match

Example the Joe Smith saga.


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11 minutes ago, pish6969 said:

My final point..Housebuy and MSU both basically admit, they’d take Shak over Venz.

If that’s the case why should be there be an argument where he’s seeded? IMO seeds should reflect the best guys in order so that no one gets screwed with a bad early round match

Example the Joe Smith saga.


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No I definitely did not say that. Also, no, even if I thought Shak was clearly the #2, you have to base seeding on criteria of some sort. I'm ok with exceptional situations like Snyder, but for Shakur I do not think he should be the #2 seed. The data does not support him being a favorite over Venz or Parker. That is pure speculation and while it could be true, it is not how seeding should be done. If that were the case, I assume you want Lee as the #1 at 141? and RBY higher than he is? You could make the same arugment for Berge. I think Berge is better than everyone in the Big10 besides the top 2, but he shouldn't be the #3 seed.

I am picking Venz over Rasheed, which based on your view is an upset. I'm excited to see it on Sunday.

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5 minutes ago, pish6969 said:

My final point..Housebuy and MSU both basically admit, they’d take Shak over Venz.

If that’s the case why should be there be an argument where he’s seeded? IMO seeds should reflect the best guys in order so that no one gets screwed with a bad early round match

Example the Joe Smith saga.


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But, seeding isn't based on gut feelings.  It is based on results.  NO results favor Rasheed over those 2 to this point.  Both placed 3rd and 4th respectively, at 184 last year.  Parker only has 2 losses-1 to Venz and 1 to Martin.  Venz has wrestled a VERY tough schedule.  He lost to #1Marti( 2xs), Reenan, Ness(AA last year and has also wrestled a brutal schedule) and Wilcke.   He also has wins over Parker, Bonaccorsi, Foster(2xs) and Reinhardt.

Rasheed has wrestled NONE of the above.  On PAPER, Rasheed's resume this season is VERY weak and the lack of B1G opponents makes it impossible to make any kind of fair comparison.  Considering B1G seeding criteria was set up to use B1G opponents as a measuring stick, I just don't see how it shouldn't hurt Rasheed.  That on top of the fact he was visibly injured and has missed almost all of 2 months is why I would put him at the 4 behind Venz and Parker.

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No I definitely did not say that. Also, no, even if I thought Shak was clearly the #2, you have to base seeding on criteria of some sort. I'm ok with exceptional situations like Snyder, but for Shakur I do not think he should be the #2 seed. The data does not support him being a favorite over Venz or Parker. That is pure speculation and while it could be true, it is not how seeding should be done. If that were the case, I assume you want Lee as the #1 at 141? and RBY higher than he is? You could make the same arugment for Berge. I think Berge is better than everyone in the Big10 besides the top 2, but he shouldn't be the #3 seed.

I am picking Venz over Rasheed, which based on your view is an upset. I'm excited to see it on Sunday.

 

So what’s your stance on JoJO? You think that’s fair to Ashworth?

 

No I dont have a problem with Lee at 2. Carr hasn’t lost in conference. RBY is fine..he could have been anywhere from 4-6. Berge is right where he should be. RBY and Berge both took bad losses. Shak hasn’t

 

So you ARE picking Venz? But don’t have enough confidence to make a post privilege or sig bet? I’m confused.

 

 

 

 

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But, seeding isn't based on gut feelings.  It is based on results.  NO results favor Rasheed over those 2 to this point.  Both placed 3rd and 4th respectively, at 184 last year.  Parker only has 2 losses-1 to Venz and 1 to Martin.  Venz has wrestled a VERY tough schedule.  He lost to #1Marti( 2xs), Reenan, Ness(AA last year and has also wrestled a brutal schedule) and Wilcke.   He also has wins over Parker, Bonaccorsi, Foster(2xs) and Reinhardt.
Rasheed has wrestled NONE of the above.  On PAPER, Rasheed's resume this season is VERY weak and the lack of B1G opponents makes it impossible to make any kind of fair comparison.  Considering B1G seeding criteria was set up to use B1G opponents as a measuring stick, I just don't see how it shouldn't hurt Rasheed.  That on top of the fact he was visibly injured and has missed almost all of 2 months is why I would put him at the 4 behind Venz and Parker.


In summary you think Shak is better than Venz but believe Venz body of work including a loss to Cash Wilcke should have him seeded above Shak?

Not trying to be a jerk..just trying to follow the logic


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5 minutes ago, pish6969 said:


So you ARE picking Venz? But don’t have enough confidence to make a post privilege or sig bet? I’m confused.
 

 

pish, I think I can translate for you. If Venz wins then MSU said the seeding was wrong, but if Shak wins then MSU said Shak was better.

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pish, I think I can translate for you. If Venz wins then MSU said the seeding was wrong, but if Shak wins then MSU said Shak was better.

 In fairness to MSU. The post you quoted was to Housebuy.

 

MSU believes Shak has an edge against Venz but believes Venz has better body of work. I just can’t get by the Wilcke loss

 

Housebuy totally confuses me because he still is confident in Venz but won’t make the bet

 

 

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

pish, I think I can translate for you. If Venz wins then MSU said the seeding was wrong, but if Shak wins then MSU said Shak was better.

You can be such a douche sometimes.  That is NOT REMOTELY what was said.  Shak doesn't deserve the seed based on this year's results for BOTH wrestlers.  But, if healthy, I would slightly favor Rasheed.  That is CRYSTAL CLEAR........

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You can be such a douche sometimes.  That is NOT REMOTELY what was said.  Shak doesn't deserve the seed based on this year's results for BOTH wrestlers.  But, if healthy, I would slightly favor Rasheed.  That is CRYSTAL CLEAR........



See my post right before yours. I did defend you..


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23 minutes ago, pish6969 said:

 


In summary you think Shak is better than Venz but believe Venz body of work including a loss to Cash Wilcke should have him seeded above Shak?

Not trying to be a jerk..just trying to follow the logic


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It sounds like MSU feels that shak is a matchup issue for Venz, not necessarily that Shak is better. Not really sure but thats what I got out of it. The problem with Rasheed is you have no clue where he is, healthy or not, against the top guys. Psu fans are obviously going to pick him, while others are going to be reserved. That being said Im excited to see him finally wrestle some top guys. 

Edited by Molsen

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Hot take, and I'm an Illini fan. Parker peaked last year at the best time possible. He is probably going to be 5th-7th depending on seeds at B1G and may very likely not AA this year. But I also think he will make the ladder for a few years on the senior level

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2 hours ago, pish6969 said:

 

So what’s your stance on JoJO? You think that’s fair to Ashworth?

 

No I dont have a problem with Lee at 2. Carr hasn’t lost in conference. RBY is fine..he could have been anywhere from 4-6. Berge is right where he should be. RBY and Berge both took bad losses. Shak hasn’t

 

So you ARE picking Venz? But don’t have enough confidence to make a post privilege or sig bet? I’m confused.

 

 

 

 

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Yes I'm picking Venz. I'm in for a sig bet. I like your posts so I feel like a post bet would be a lose - lose. 

Stipulations:

If Venz and Rasheed wrestle at Big 10s:

Venz wins I get to write your sig and you have to keep it for 30 days

If Rasheed beats Venz, you get to write my sig and I have to keep it for 30 days

The sig should be focused on wrestling somehow. For example "Cael only won 4 titles because his competition was weak. he wouldn't sniff the podium if he was eligible today" :)

Deal?

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2 hours ago, pish6969 said:

 

So what’s your stance on JoJO? You think that’s fair to Ashworth?

 

No I dont have a problem with Lee at 2. Carr hasn’t lost in conference. RBY is fine..he could have been anywhere from 4-6. Berge is right where he should be. RBY and Berge both took bad losses. Shak hasn’t

 

So you ARE picking Venz? But don’t have enough confidence to make a post privilege or sig bet? I’m confused.

 

 

 

 

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In terms of Joe Smith (he doesn't go by JoJo anymore I don't think) - I think they shouldn't put him on the opposite side as the #1 seed, as this is a special case. Shak's case is very different. 

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4 hours ago, MSU158 said:

You can be such a douche sometimes.  That is NOT REMOTELY what was said.  Shak doesn't deserve the seed based on this year's results for BOTH wrestlers.  But, if healthy, I would slightly favor Rasheed.  That is CRYSTAL CLEAR........

Geez, you were joking about sig bets. My post is a joke. Lighten up Francis. 

Edited by TBar1977

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In terms of Joe Smith (he doesn't go by JoJo anymore I don't think) - I think they shouldn't put him on the opposite side as the #1 seed, as this is a special case. Shak's case is very different. 

 

How? Thought your only special case was Snyder. You don’t think that highly of JoJo do you?

 

 

For what it’s worth I would’ve put him at 2

 

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1 hour ago, pish6969 said:

 

How? Thought your only special case was Snyder. You don’t think that highly of JoJo do you?

 

 

For what it’s worth I would’ve put him at 2

 

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No. Joe is a special case in that typically they don't take prior year's results into account, but they should here. If Shak was a returning NCAA champ and everything else was the same, I wouldn't have brought up the issue. Shak has worse credentials that at least 2 of the guys he is seeded ahead of, both for this season and lifetime. The same cannot be said with Joe vs the field. 

 

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you going to take the sig wager or no?


I’m in..sorry I missed your reply earlier. If I win, your sig needs to be “my name is Housebuy, I watch a lot of wrestling, but as Pish says, I don’t know what the hell I’m watching”

I’ll put whatever you want if you win


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1 minute ago, pish6969 said:

 


I’m in..sorry I missed your reply earlier. If I win, your sig needs to be “my name is Housebuy, I watch a lot of wrestling, but as Pish says, I don’t know what the hell I’m watching”

I’ll put whatever you want if you win


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I'm in.

I'll think of a good one for you. I promise.

Good luck. It feels weird to root against Rasheed. 

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