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Hands to the face is taking away some of the integrity of the sport.

These long reviews hurt the pace of the match & the wrestlers' concentration.

The wrestler will tell you that it isn't how he wants to win.

Spencer should have won that match, and I believe he will win it all in two weeks. He will have a similar difficult path like Yianni last year, close matches and a close final – but he will get the job done.  Then he transfers to another team back east. That’s my prediction.

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Hands to the face is taking away some of the integrity of the sport.
These long reviews hurt the pace of the match & the wrestlers' concentration.
The wrestler will tell you that it isn't how he wants to win.
Spencer should have won that match, and I believe he will win it all in two weeks. He will have a similar difficult path like Yianni last year, close matches and a close final – but he will get the job done.  Then he transfers to another team back east. That’s my prediction.

Why would he transfer back east when his family uprooted and moved to Iowa?


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10 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

Yeah trying to win a match by challenging for a hands to the face call is despicable! That would be almost as bad as winning on a head gear pull!

I was about to make the same point. The headgear pull though is a bit more consequential. The Lee situation was ridiculous as no coach would ever have complained about that particular hands to face prior to the rule going into effect. 

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1 hour ago, Marcus Cisero said:

Spencer should have won that match, and I believe he will win it all in two weeks. He will have a similar difficult path like Yianni last year, close matches and a close final – but he will get the job done.  Then he transfers to another team back east. That’s my prediction.

I would be very surprised to see him transfer anywhere. Like lu alum said, his family is out there. Girlfriend goes to Iowa as well, right? Nothing is out of the realm of possibility I guess. Do you have any supporting info on this, or is it just your gut?

Now to digress with my red colored glasses on, imagine if Lee transferred to Cornell...Spencer Lee 125, Vito 133, Tucker 141, Yianni 149. Maybe switch Vito and Tucker as honestly Vito could probably fill into the weight better. Now that would be the best lightweight lineup in the country.

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2 minutes ago, custom fitch said:

I would be very surprised to see him transfer anywhere. Like lu alum said, his family is out there. Girlfriend goes to Iowa as well, right? Nothing is out of the realm of possibility I guess. Do you have any supporting info on this, or is it just your gut?

Now to digress with my red colored glasses on, imagine if Lee transferred to Cornell...Spencer Lee 125, Vito 133, Tucker 141, Yianni 149. Maybe switch Vito and Tucker as honestly Vito could probably fill into the weight better. Now that would be the best lightweight lineup in the country.

no supporting info, I just feel very strongly that he needs to be outta Iowa. His parents moved out west and can easily move back east if its whats best for their son. As it relates to his girlfriend, girlfriends come and go.

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1 hour ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

You are wrong, he still would have had 1:02 of riding time without the clock error 

Finally I saw what happened thanks to another thread. As close as possible from looking at the video I would agree with the above calculation.

 

What's more interesting is to look at the transcripts on both Track and Flo. I believe Track was official but they show the td happening at 0:08. Flo shows it at 0:06.

Could the ref have signaled with the wrong hand initially? I looked at the youtube video which just barely shows the ref but it seems he was pointing with his right hand which means he might have signaled 2 with his left/red hand.

Edited by gimpeltf

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You are all assuming that the timing of a TD call is reviewable. I doubt that it is. If it was, you could have a challenge brick on literally every TD with a coach saying it was awarded 3 seconds too late or too early as the case may be. What a disaster that would be.

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1 minute ago, NJDan said:

You are all assuming that the timing of a TD call is reviewable. I doubt that it is. If it was, you could have a challenge brick on literally every TD with a coach saying it was awarded 3 seconds too late or too early as the case may be. What a disaster that would be.

It is. In many reviews the refs pay attention to getting the riding time correct. OT was a gift to Spencer.

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My big concern with this hands to the face call is that it is reviewable. IMO if the ref didn't see it, it couldn't have been too egregious. How many times was hands to the face under review this weekend? Too many, and some of them came down to pure accidental touching of the face when there was some hand fighting going on. You're not going to be able to completely avoid that. Make it non reviewable, give a warning first, and stop this rule from being such a huge part of every match!

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21 minutes ago, russelscout said:

My big concern with this hands to the face call is that it is reviewable. IMO if the ref didn't see it, it couldn't have been too egregious. How many times was hands to the face under review this weekend? Too many, and some of them came down to pure accidental touching of the face when there was some hand fighting going on. You're not going to be able to completely avoid that. Make it non reviewable, give a warning first, and stop this rule from being such a huge part of every match!

If the rule is going to remain in place (which I think it will), I think a rule change to add a warning is inevitable. I can't imagine many coaches (an especially wrestlers) want matches to be decided by this rule except when there is a serial offender. The idea of making it non-reviewable makes a lot of sense as well, but they should be able to review to overturn if it was called when there wasn't any face contact. You just shouldn't be able to throw the brick to try and pick up a point from some incidental contact that can only be seen in slow mo.
 

That said, Lee clearly used his hand on the face of Rivera to back out of an underhook. So even with a rule change, a hands to the face call would be deserved there. My question is what is the spirit of this rule? Is it to stop eye gouging or incidental eye pokes? Because crossfaces are still legal, so we aren't trying to protect that area of the face in general. If Lee had pushed off with his forearm, he would not have been penalized. I'm not completely opposed to the rule, but still have a hard time with a little hand/face contact during a tough hand fight costing a point.

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3 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

If the rule is going to remain in place (which I think it will), I think a rule change to add a warning is inevitable. I can't imagine many coaches (an especially wrestlers) want matches to be decided by this rule except when there is a serial offender. The idea of making it non-reviewable makes a lot of sense as well, but they should be able to review to overturn if it was called when there wasn't any face contact. You just shouldn't be able to throw the brick to try and pick up a point from some incidental contact that can only be seen in slow mo.
 

That said, Lee clearly used his hand on the face of Rivera to back out of an underhook. So even with a rule change, a hands to the face call would be deserved there. My question is what is the spirit of this rule? Is it to stop eye gouging or incidental eye pokes? Because crossfaces are still legal, so we aren't trying to protect that area of the face in general. If Lee had pushed off with his forearm, he would not have been penalized. I'm not completely opposed to the rule, but still have a hard time with a little hand/face contact during a tough hand fight costing a point.

Correct. Had he used his forearms he would not have been penalized.

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On 3/10/2019 at 10:02 PM, BigTenFanboy said:

So you're saying headgear pulls should be legal.

Nope just trolling Tbar for making a big deal of Brands challenging hands to the face, but it’s ok for Can-do-no-wrong Cael to challenge a head gear pull. 

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There have been plenty of shots of Rivera hitting Lee in the face in the first period and Terry even said, "hey, that was hands to the face.  I'm okay with you not calling it, but don't call it in the match."  Maybe they should have thrown the brick then, because freeze framed shots show it was obvious, but I don't think they like the rule, but it's because it was called on their wrestler they threw the brick in the OT.  Also, FLO showed a tape that had both guys out of bounds when they gave Rivera the escape, so the Referee missed the escape call at the 30 second mark to make it essentially 4-1 and then called the hands to the face to make it 4-2.  I give Rivera credit for scoring to tie it, but he never gets the chance if the match is properly called.  

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Hands to the face is ruining the sport of wrestling....lol

 

Especially when they start picking and choosing who they nail and at what time during match they will or wont call it.

Edited by tbert

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