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silvermedal

Shakur Rasheed Forfeit in Finals

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Am I the only one who thinks it was utter nonsense?  If he wasn't going to wrestle in the finals, why not FF in semis like Micic?   I didn't see any evidence of injury in his match with Venz.  My opinion is Cael has a plan for his match with Martin and wanted to avoid them wrestling as a result.  Good strategy perhaps but bad form when you have a nationally televised BT finals marquee matchup.  

Bottom line--it was not good for wrestling and the Big Ten should look into it. 

Edited by silvermedal

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I’m annoyed too, but how can you possibly know if a guy is actually injured? What if they just say they weren’t feeling well? Or had a minor injury but didn’t want to risk making it worse, seeing as they already qualified?

i don’t know the solution. Fan bases are fine with it though. Iowa fans went from “always put our guys out there” to defending the Lee and Stoll decisions. Not bashing them - this is the nature of fan bases. 

My name is Housebuye  I watch a lot of wrestling, but as Pish says, I don’t know what the hell I’m watching

 

Edited by Housebuye

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As long as you're allowed to forfeit qualifier matches and continue, it's a legitimate strategy.  The finals match would have had zero seeding impact, but they apparently don't want Martin getting a look at that cradle before NCAAs.  

To me you go to a real qualifier system where forfeiting out means you can't continue in the postseason.  Make guys step on the mat and injury default if they don't want to wrestle, and then the loss counts.

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1 minute ago, silvermedal said:

Am I the only one who thinks it was utter nonsense?  If he wasn't going to wrestle in the finals, why not FF in semis like Micic?   I didn't see any evidence of injury in his match with Venz.  My opinion is Cael has a plan for his match with Martin and wanted to avoid them wrestling as a result.  Good strategy perhaps but bad form when you have a nationally televised BT finals marquee matchup.  

Bottom line--it was not good for wrestling and the Big Ten should look into it.  If there isn't obvious evidence of injury, Cael should be fined.  

And if there is, I'll stand corrected.  

 

Agree with your assessment... whether or not they have a specific plan, I think they feel Martin has more to gain from a 2nd match than Rasheed does.  Shak's length can cause a lot of problems for guys, especially at 184, and I imagine getting a preview of his cradle would be helpful in defending it down the road too.  So from that standpoint, I understand the strategy, as frustrating as it is.  

Re: punishing Cael--I don't know how you can do that when there is an injury.  His direct quote on the decision: "It was just kind of precautionary... we need him in Pittsburgh, and I hate to--Myles Martin is an unbelievable wrestler and a senior, so I felt bad about that being live on the Big 10 network, but it was the suggestion of our medical staff to not take a risk there."

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22 minutes ago, silvermedal said:

Am I the only one who thinks it was utter nonsense?  If he wasn't going to wrestle in the finals, why not FF in semis like Micic?   I didn't see any evidence of injury in his match with Venz.  My opinion is Cael has a plan for his match with Martin and wanted to avoid them wrestling as a result.  Good strategy perhaps but bad form when you have a nationally televised BT finals marquee matchup.  

Bottom line--it was not good for wrestling and the Big Ten should look into it. 

It was lame for the fans. But unlike regular season ducks, Rasheed's duck will actually count against him. So there is no injustice in this case.

Edited by Katie

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26 minutes ago, silvermedal said:

Am I the only one who thinks it was utter nonsense?  If he wasn't going to wrestle in the finals, why not FF in semis like Micic?   I didn't see any evidence of injury in his match with Venz.  My opinion is Cael has a plan for his match with Martin and wanted to avoid them wrestling as a result.  Good strategy perhaps but bad form when you have a nationally televised BT finals marquee matchup.  

Bottom line--it was not good for wrestling and the Big Ten should look into it. 

Cael said in post match interview that the trainer made the decision. At least the Big Ten knows who to ask about it now. 

Edited by TBar1977

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27 minutes ago, boconnell said:

  The finals match would have had zero seeding impact, but they apparently don't want Martin getting a look at that cradle before NCAAs.  

 

You don't think it would have had a seeding impact if Rasheed would have won?

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26 minutes ago, boconnell said:

As long as you're allowed to forfeit qualifier matches and continue, it's a legitimate strategy.  The finals match would have had zero seeding impact, but they apparently don't want Martin getting a look at that cradle before NCAAs.  

To me you go to a real qualifier system where forfeiting out means you can't continue in the postseason.  Make guys step on the mat and injury default if they don't want to wrestle, and then the loss counts.

I like that idea. It isn't a perfect solution to the problem but it is easy to implement and would make a big impact in situations like this. 

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45 minutes ago, silvermedal said:

Am I the only one who thinks it was utter nonsense?  If he wasn't going to wrestle in the finals, why not FF in semis like Micic?   I didn't see any evidence of injury in his match with Venz.  My opinion is Cael has a plan for his match with Martin and wanted to avoid them wrestling as a result.  Good strategy perhaps but bad form when you have a nationally televised BT finals marquee matchup.  

Bottom line--it was not good for wrestling and the Big Ten should look into it. 

bad for wrestling because of media? who cares. they don't run our sport. Cael is giving his guy the best chance to win a national title. Thats what good coaches do. Cry more.

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8 minutes ago, russelscout said:

After all the outrage against Brands and now people are gonna give a pass to Cael on this one. Oh also the Berge one. Don't forget about Joseph sitting out against Wick. But yeah, Brands is ruining the sport.

As punishment to both Brands and Cael they should be forced to have their teams wrestle a dual every year.

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As a fan I was annoyed but I am not the trainer . As well as lets face it chance beating Martin is one way a cradle. If not healthy let him rest . Not give 2nd chance or feel for the cradle. Try catch him in ncaa if they meet.

Would not want to make a trend of this. Provided he gets 2nd or 3rd seed has legitimate chance of meeting Martin in Finals.

 

Frank C

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, russelscout said:

After all the outrage against Brands and now people are gonna give a pass to Cael on this one. Oh also the Berge one. Don't forget about Joseph sitting out against Wick. But yeah, Brands is ruining the sport.

The original poster clearly called it out, so we have an entire thread devoted to their transgression against the Wrestling Gods. Did you miss that? 

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44 minutes ago, Katie said:

It was lame for the fans. But unlike regular season ducks, Rasheed's duck will actually count against him. So there is no injustice in this case.

I'm not sure it does.  At the very least, he should drop in the Coaches Ranking for this.  But it doesn't affect win %, RPI, or any other factor I can think of.

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7 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

As punishment to both Brands and Cael they should be forced to have their teams wrestle a dual every year.

And apparently force will be required. An accepted invite and gentleman's agreement will not "get 'er done". 

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I'm not sure it does.  At the very least, he should drop in the Coaches Ranking for this.  But it doesn't affect win %, RPI, or any other factor I can think of.

 

Drop in coaches rank? He beat Venz. He was already behind Martin. He isn’t going anywhere. He’ll be 2 in coaches rank as he’s been all along

 

If he would have MFF to Venz then you would have seen a drop

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

The original poster clearly called it out, so we have an entire thread devoted to their transgression against the Wrestling Gods. Did you miss that? 

I did not. I do know that the general tone of the board regarding that event was outrage. This discussion seems to carry a little more understanding. You disagree?

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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I did not. I do know that the general tone of the board regarding that event was outrage. This discussion seems to carry a little more understanding. You disagree?

I am privy to the fact that different opinions exist in the world. Thankfully, for now. 

Tons of folks agree with you, now you need to do what BTFB can't seem to do in the other thread and let your moral victory savor a little while still allowing room for others to disagree on the margin. 

Edited by TBar1977

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Reason #245 wrestling is still stuck in the stone ages. Imagine Duke forfeiting to North Carolina in an ACC basketball  tournament final so as not to show them too much in case they met in the NCAA tourney?
When the seeds come out, we will see if there was a punishment here.


What punishment would you like? He was number 2 coming in and MFF to Number 1?

No ones asking to see Shak seeded at 1 so not sure of the concern?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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3 minutes ago, Greatdane67 said:

Reason #245 wrestling is still stuck in the stone ages. Imagine Duke forfeiting to North Carolina in an ACC basketball  tournament final so as not to show them too much in case they met in the NCAA tourney?

When the seeds come out, we will see if there was a punishment here.

 

Team sport vs. individual sport comparisons don't really work.  If Zion is still dealing with his knee injury throughout the ACC tournament, you better believe he's sitting until the big dance.  

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