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Zebra

Senator Birch Bayh Title IX author died today at 91

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Girls are not as interested in sports as boys.  Drive through a park or playground.  Who do you see playing pick up basketball?  Who's playing soccer?  I'm not talking organized soccer games, who's just playing for fun?  Who's shooting hoops in their driveway?  My son and the neighbor boys would always play wiffle ball, 500, strikeout, all day long, and then go to baseball practice or games. 

What if we started cutting opportunities for women in female dominated majors and professions (elementary education, nursing, etc) in the name of giving males an equal opportunity?  They may have an opportunity, but just are not interested.

Edited by jchapman

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11 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Girls are not as interested in sports as boys.  Drive through a park or playground.  Who do you see playing pick up basketball?  Who's playing soccer?  I'm not talking organized soccer games, who's just playing for fun?  Who's shooting hoops in their driveway?  My son and the neighbor boys would always play wiffle ball, 500, strikeout, all day long, and then go to baseball practice or games. 

What if we started cutting opportunities for women in female dominated majors and professions (elementary education, nursing, etc) in the name of giving males an equal opportunity?  They may have an opportunity, but just are not interested.

But they SHOULD be interested because sports are a healthy endeavor.  Culture needs a change and Title IX is part of that change.

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8 hours ago, boconnell said:

There's nothing wrong with Title 9.  How it's enforced is the problem.  You should not be able to comply by cutting men's sports.  Compliance should mean adding women's sports and keeping men's sports.  

There is an issue with the regulations around this law an how the legal fees are funneled back to the lawyers for more Title IX lawsuits. That part of it has nothing to do with equality it has to do with a money making racket similar to what is now happening with California's Prop 65. 

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1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

But they SHOULD be interested because sports are a healthy endeavor.  Culture needs a change and Title IX is part of that change.

You can not make people like anything they don't want. Encouragement is different than mandating. 

Edited by Zebra

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18 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Girls are not as interested in sports as boys.  Drive through a park or playground.  Who do you see playing pick up basketball?  Who's playing soccer?  I'm not talking organized soccer games, who's just playing for fun?  Who's shooting hoops in their driveway?  My son and the neighbor boys would always play wiffle ball, 500, strikeout, all day long, and then go to baseball practice or games. 

What if we started cutting opportunities for women in female dominated majors and professions (elementary education, nursing, etc) in the name of giving males an equal opportunity?  They may have an opportunity, but just are not interested.

I get what you are saying, but we really are not that far removed from a huge cultural shift; a time when women never worked, didn't have right to fill out a credit app without a man, and main responsibility was to get married and have kids. That is a huge difference and it will take time to change. There are girls who shoot hoops and play sports, but you are right, it is less. However, we have not completely abandoned those traditional roles of the past either. It may take some time, but it is happening.  

If you believe that sports are important for health and education of our youth, then you should want that for both sides. I know I want that for my daughter someday, for both health and the education standpoint. 

Also men are not entering elementary education or nursing at a high rate, but I can tell you from experience(my wife is a teacher) when it is time to hire someone, and its between a male and a woman at elementary ed, the male gets the job 90% of the time. There is more of an opportunity there for men, men just don't want to take it. Incentivize them and pay more, then I bet you would see more men.

Edited by russelscout

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"Girls are not as interested in sports as boys. "

 

Although there is a lot of evidence that this is true- think back to before Title IX. It would appear to have been more true then than now.

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6 minutes ago, russelscout said:



Also men are not entering elementary education or nursing at a high rate, but I can tell you from experience(my wife is a teacher) when it is time to hire someone, and its between a male and a woman at elementary ed, the male gets the job 90% of the time. 

What is the ratio of male to female teachers at your wife's elementary school?

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16 hours ago, fullnelson said:

It's interesting that the college admission scam exposed,  the only athletes scamming the system are females; they could scam the system because necessary quotas have to be met to offset the number of males in the athletic dept. There isn't a male-only team's coach in the country who doesn't know what he's getting; girls don't need any experience to make some of these teams (in name only).

I'm not sure you read the story closely enough. Those girls didn't actually play on the team. Their parents paid the coaches and administrators off to get them in as a team member. I guarantee that this also occurred on a lot of the men's teams too in the niche sports like rowing. It just happens that the most famous faces in the scandal had daughters, not sons. I think there are something like 800 kids implicated in this scandal.

In fact, I was recruited to join the men's rowing team at my university when the coach saw me using the rowing machine at the student gym. Rowing is a rich kid sport, and there aren't that many rich kids at state schools (as this scandal kind shows how that's the case). Men's teams have problems filling rosters too sometimes.

Edited by qc8223

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6 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

"Girls are not as interested in sports as boys. "

 

Although there is a lot of evidence that this is true- think back to before Title IX. It would appear to have been more true then than now.

Listened to a 30 for 30 podcast a little while back about the first women to run a marathon. The doctor told her it was to dangerous to run because women are more or less to fragile and weak. There was no running shoes or athletic gear for women at the time. I wonder if that kind of stuff played a part in women interest at all?

Edited by russelscout

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14 minutes ago, Zebra said:

You can not make people like anything they don't want. Encouragement is different than mandating. 

There's no inherent genetic aversion to sports for women. Sports involvement increases every year as we continue to provide more opportunities for women. For years, women were discouraged from participating in sports due to culturally constructed gender roles. Now that those roles aren't as strictly enforced, it turns out that women do kind of like sports because sports are fun. Who would have thought? For men, we've also seen a huge increase in interest in things like cooking, knitting, homemaking, and other things that were traditionally reserved for women. People are starting to do the things they like instead of the things society tells them they should like. That's a really good thing.

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1 minute ago, qc8223 said:

There's no inherent genetic aversion to sports for women. Sports involvement increases every year as we continue to provide more opportunities for women. For years, women were discouraged from participating in sports due to culturally constructed gender roles. Now that those roles aren't as strictly enforced, it turns out that women do kind of like sports because sports are fun. Who would have thought? For men, we've also seen a huge increase in interest in things like cooking, knitting, homemaking, and other things that were traditionally reserved for women. People are starting to do the things they like instead of the things society tells them they should like. That's a really good thing.

It is a great thing! We are increasing inclusiveness and productivity of our whole society. Too bad robots are gonna come in and take all our jobs because we really had a good thing going here.

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17 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Listened to a 30 for 30 podcast a little while back about the first women to run a marathon. The doctor told her it was to dangerous to run because women are more or less to fragile and weak. There was no running shoes or athletic gear for women at the time. I wonder if that kind of stuff played a part in women interest at all?

Image result for photo first woman run marathonNot sure if you're talking about the first woman to run Boston? Photo of race official trying to physically remove her from the race and getting sidelined by her boyfriend.

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I think we should also come to terms with the fact that a lot of these programs would have been dropped anyway. A lot of these schools really just wanted to funnel all of their athletic money into their football and basketball programs because a good program can be a huge draw for students, and as state funding decreases for public colleges, they are more and more reliant on tuition for funding. Another form this takes is funneling a ton of funding into luxury dorms and student amenities instead of paying professors and staff good wages. I'm sure there are several Big Ten Athletic Departments that would love to be able to cut their wrestling program if they could get away with it. Small sports like wrestling lose a lot of money and don't have any (comparatively) fan interest or draw.

 

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1 hour ago, jchapman said:

Girls are not as interested in sports as boys.  Drive through a park or playground.  Who do you see playing pick up basketball?  Who's playing soccer?  I'm not talking organized soccer games, who's just playing for fun?  Who's shooting hoops in their driveway?  My son and the neighbor boys would always play wiffle ball, 500, strikeout, all day long, and then go to baseball practice or games. 

What if we started cutting opportunities for women in female dominated majors and professions (elementary education, nursing, etc) in the name of giving males an equal opportunity?  They may have an opportunity, but just are not interested.

My anecdotal evidence tells me something different.  The girls in my neighborhood are out there shooting hoops, playing wiffle ball, etc. with the my son and his friends.  When I take my son to hitting lessons, girls out number the boys.

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16 minutes ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

This article argues that "the hard hand of evolution plays at least as much of a role in sports interest and participation as policy does—and quite possibly a greater one."

http://time.com/4322947/men-women-sports-evolution/

 

Every cultural change has its counter culture right? The conservative post war era led to the hippies and the civil rights and women's movements of the 70's followed by the post Vietnam conservativatism and "Vacuum will set you free" movement. It may be a hard sell to women to buy into and participate in a sports environment created by men, designed for men, and played by men for 100 years from an evolutionary perspective, but maybe when the dust settles from this back and forth cultural shifting of gender roles we can will have something that does work for both sides. Is that overly optimistic? Maybe.

Edited by russelscout

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9 hours ago, dmm53 said:

Bayh also tried to abolish the Electoral College.  It's too bad he didn't succeed.  And hopefully it will still happen.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/opinion/birch-bayh-constitution.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

I wouldn't count on the Electoral College ever going away.

That would require a Constitutional Amendment.

If I remember my civics,the method usually used is to have  passage by  2/3 of both houses of Congress.

Then, within a set time period,ratification be 3/4 of State Legislatures.

The Electoral College is the only thing that makes states like Iowa,Wyoming,etc. relevant in a Presidential 

Election.

Can't see those kind of states every going along with the elimination of the Electoral College.

 

Edited by rpbobcat

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