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Zebra

Senator Birch Bayh Title IX author died today at 91

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1 minute ago, Zebra said:

Unless of course you were that "Price".  

What about the "Price" paid by all the women who never got an opportunity or never even believed there was an opportunity before Title IX? Are you upset for them?  Where is the outrage for the misogyny that ran unchecked in our education system from the beginning? Or are you just able to ignore that because that was then and this is now? This is a stupid hill to die on Zebra. 

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1 minute ago, russelscout said:

What about the "Price" paid by all the women who never got an opportunity or never even believed there was an opportunity before Title IX? Are you upset for them?  Where is the outrage for the misogyny that ran unchecked in our education system from the beginning? Or are you just able to ignore that because that was then and this is now? This is a stupid hill to die on Zebra. 

So two wrongs make a right? That's exactly what you are saying. 

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Just now, Zebra said:

So two wrongs make a right? That's exactly what you are saying. 

More like you need to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Change is hard and it isn't going to be easy to apply something like Title IX to a system that was so one sided. In order to compensate for unequal distribution, there needed to be a correction. I don't know how you do that without men's programs taking a hit. What do you think the answer was that still dealt with the issue?

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32 minutes ago, Zebra said:

Since gymnastics and gender keeps popping up can somebody tell me how many DI teams there are of each gender? 

Men's D1 - 15 (6.3 Scholarships max)

Women's D1- 62 (12 Scholarships - Head Count)

While we are here Volleyball (Men's - 4.5, Women's - 12 Head Count). Ice Hockey interestingly is rare in that they both get 18.

 

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Look at it as a problem from an athletic department's point of view.  Here are the inputs:

1) Apart from football and men's basketball, all sports bleed money.

2) There are 57 million dollars to spend.

3) We need equal participation from the two genders.

4) Football is greedy.  They spend more on hotel accommodations for home games than any other sport consumes in total.  They also supply most of the 57 million.

 

You be the AD and solve this problem.   Apparently, you want to remove input 3 and call it good?

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1 minute ago, JeanGuy said:

Men's D1 - 15 (6.3 Scholarships max)

Women's D1- 62 (12 Scholarships - Head Count)

While we are here Volleyball (Men's - 4.5, Women's - 12 Head Count). Ice Hockey interestingly is rare in that they both get 18.

 

15 teams. Man that is pathetic. Why even bother at that point.  

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3 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Look at it as a problem from an athletic department's point of view.  Here are the inputs:

1) Apart from football and men's basketball, all sports bleed money.

2) There are 57 million dollars to spend.

3) We need equal participation from the two genders.

4) Football is greedy.  They spend more on hotel accommodations for home games than any other sport consumes in total.  They also supply most of the 57 million.

 

You be the AD and solve this problem.   Apparently, you want to remove input 3 and call it good?

DIII does not seem to have the same problem. I know the issue there is no scholarships but participation is much more significant. Maybe just maybe that is a better way to go. 

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3 minutes ago, Zebra said:

Sorry the omelette metaphor is wrong. It is wrong and that's all there is to it. You've got 20 posts attempting to justify that wrong. 

And you have 20 posts attempting to paint a niche mens sport as a victim in a civil rights issue. Pretty mind-blowing actually. 

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6 minutes ago, JeanGuy said:

Men's D1 - 15 (6.3 Scholarships max)

Women's D1- 62 (12 Scholarships - Head Count)

While we are here Volleyball (Men's - 4.5, Women's - 12 Head Count). Ice Hockey interestingly is rare in that they both get 18.

 

Thanks for the answer by the way. 

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Just now, russelscout said:

And you have 20 posts attempting to paint a niche mens sport as a victim in a civil rights issue. Pretty mind-blowing actually. 

I never said any of that. I simply was saying to all those who said it was not affected adversely that it was and still is. 

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8 minutes ago, Zebra said:

I never said any of that. I simply was saying to all those who said it was not affected adversely that it was and still is. 

Who said that wrestling is not affected? No one is saying that. You seem to be arguing against us who don't want to paint wrestling as a victims, and don't want to complain about a law that absolutely needed to happen. 

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6 minutes ago, Zebra said:

DIII does not seem to have the same problem. I know the issue there is no scholarships but participation is much more significant. Maybe just maybe that is a better way to go. 

Maybe.  How many d3 programs now vs 40 years ago? 

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2 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Maybe.  How many d3 programs now vs 40 years ago? 

Not sure but there are more than 100 DIII teams. I think there are more DIII than DI and DII combined. Someone out there surely has the tota. When you factor in NAIA, which is a whole different animal, then DIII / NAIA dwarfs the other tow divisions. 

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2 minutes ago, Zebra said:

Not sure but there are more than 100 DIII teams. I think there are more DIII than DI and DII combined. Someone out there surely has the tota. When you factor in NAIA, which is a whole different animal, then DIII / NAIA dwarfs the other tow divisions. 

NAIA is gaining a lot now, but they are recovering from only like 20 teams in the 90's. Maybe less?

Edited by russelscout

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7 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Who said that wrestling is not affected? No one is saying that. You seem to be arguing against us who don't want to paint wrestling as a victims, and don't want to complain about a law that absolutely needed to happen. 

Go back a read some of the responses. Some certainly implied exactly that. You on the other hand were implying it is an OK thing to punish one group because of wrongs form the past, and defended that position in several posts.

 

Title IX most assuredly impacted wrestling in an adverse way and it is never acceptable punish a person for the failings of people in the past. Those are the two things I have been saying, nothing more nothing less. 

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1 minute ago, russelscout said:

NAIA is gaining a lot now, but they are recovering from only like 20 teams in the 90's. Maybe less?

Yes, at the end of the extreme reaction of administrators to Title IX. 

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1 minute ago, Zebra said:

Yes, at the end of the extreme reaction of administrators to Title IX. 

And the beginning of schools using sports to grow their student body and get that income from tuition. Not many of those kids are getting full rides. Most are paying to wrestle in college.

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5 minutes ago, Zebra said:

Go back a read some of the responses. Some certainly implied exactly that. You on the other hand were implying it is an OK thing to punish one group because of wrongs form the past, and defended that position in several posts.

 

Title IX most assuredly impacted wrestling in an adverse way and it is never acceptable punish a person for the failings of people in the past. Those are the two things I have been saying, nothing more nothing less. 

You seem to think there is this endless supply of funds for wrestling and more women sports to match it. Your issue should be with football not Title IX. Men aren't short on opportunities. Wrestlers are.

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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

And the beginning of schools using sports to grow their student body and get that income from tuition. Not many of those kids are getting full rides. Most are paying to wrestle in college.

You mean the same model used in DIII. Gee why didn't I mention that? Oh wait I might have done that very thing. 

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1 minute ago, russelscout said:

You seem to think there is this endless supply of funds for wrestling and more women sports to match it. Your issue should be with football not Title IX. Men aren't short on opportunities. Wrestlers are.

That's just silly and you should know better. 

 

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Just now, Zebra said:

That's just silly and you should know better. 

 

I have yet to see you actually come up with solutions, other than say go the d3 model which means asking all the kids to pay 30k a year to wrestle. What an opportunity. All you want to do is complain an injustice, but you don't provide a realistic answer with how to deal with it. 

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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I have yet to see you actually come up with solutions, other than say go the d3 model which means asking all the kids to pay 30k a year to wrestle. What an opportunity. All you want to do is complain an injustice, but you don't provide a realistic answer with how to deal with it. 

I did not know that was prerequisite. I suppose the whole "punish innocent people who didn't have anything to do with it" thing is already used up. 

 

 

Oh, and the vast majority of kids have to pay something for college. In fact a whole lot of somethings, including almost all DI wrestlers so that is a non sequitur. 

Edited by Zebra

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