An Outsider's Take on the Big Tens

[russelscout 481]

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6394462-an-outsiders-take-on-the-big-ten-championships

I really enjoyed this read for others who may not have seen it. I like the perspective outside of the echo chamber.

[iGranby 132]

I really enjoyed the article. Everyone who I recommended it to (who actually read it) also enjoyed. 

Some points I really liked:

Singlets- No need to debate, but yeah. 

Conference finals- I didnt agree at first, but the more I thought about it the more I'm on board. There can be spectacle and ceremony for the consolation finals, they deserve it and they're awesome- but a conference championship deserves its own stage. 

[tigerfan 68]

I too, liked the fresh perspective. No singlets = no brainer.  Increasing the spectacle/entertainment value of the sport in general/finals in particular is something I've been advocating for a long time.  We are competing with every other recreational/entertainment minute there is, and we have to put out a better product if we want to grow the sport.  That doesn't have to mean tweaking the rules constantly (although that can be part of it).  10 years ago we had an announcer at Mizzou duals who did announcing for multiple sports for the uni, didn't know the wrestlers names, knew next to nothing about the sport, and there was never lights/smoke/fireworks/music/videos/etc.  We changed all that to improve the "show".  It matters.

[TobusRex 1,131]

I've long advocated wrestling in the nude except for oversized, ornate codpieces of the finest silver. How to we do this without straps, you ask. I reply: Velcro.

[steamboat_charlie v2 260]

I enjoyed the article as well.  We're getting there on the singlets.  I would make headgear optional as well personally but understand the arguments against it.  

Re: conference finals, I agree 100%.  Was at the tournament remember having the exact same thoughts... why am I not focused on the first place bout?  Seems like an obvious improvement.

And another note... why are we still doing the podium in between matches?  Let's do it at the end.  

[russelscout 481]

1 minute ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I enjoyed the article as well.  We're getting there on the singlets.  I would make headgear optional as well personally but understand the arguments against it.  

Re: conference finals, I agree 100%.  Was at the tournament remember having the exact same thoughts... why am I not focused on the first place bout?  Seems like an obvious improvement.

And another note... why are we still doing the podium in between matches?  Let's do it at the end.  

Podium works well with commercial breaks though.

[steamboat_charlie v2 260]

11 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Podium works well with commercial breaks though.

Fair point.  I've just always found it annoying. 

[tigerfan 68]

3 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Fair point.  I've just always found it annoying. 

I've felt the same way.  When I do, I take a moment to remember these are not pros getting paid to perform for my entertainment, but hard-working students who deserve to be recognized for their achievements by the whole crowd, not just friends/family who stick around after the event is over.

[steamboat_charlie v2 260]

1 minute ago, tigerfan said:

I've felt the same way.  When I do, I take a moment to remember these are not pros getting paid to perform for my entertainment, but hard-working students who deserve to be recognized for their achievements by the whole crowd, not just friends/family who stick around after the event is over.

In my view, it's not really for the wrestlers.  I think if you polled the competitors, most would just as soon eliminate the whole podium process altogether.  

[TobusRex 1,131]

6 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

In my view, it's not really for the wrestlers.  I think if you polled the competitors, most would just as soon eliminate the whole podium process altogether.  

At some tournaments I went to they handed them out between finals matches. That was convenient, I could go sit with dad and laugh about the heavies :.

Edited Friday at 04:32 PM by TobusRex

[Dr. Novak 55]

Wrestling consolation finals next to a finals match is about the dumbest thing ever so couldn't agree more with the author.   Now everybody does it except the National finals.  It really is awful.

[gimpeltf 777]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Novak said:

Wrestling consolation finals next to a finals match is about the dumbest thing ever so couldn't agree more with the author.   Now everybody does it except the National finals.  It really is awful.

And for the most part (other than maybe MSG) Session 5 is pretty much empty. And I've heard some coaches suggest that it seems to help make the finals higher scoring affairs than when left out by themselves.

[Dr. Novak 55]

If we listened to wrestling coaches the sport would be extinct.  Most have no clue how to market and promote.  Too busy chewing their knuckles or pretending they're still wrestling...down in a crouch like Pritzlaff and T. Brands.

[Gantry 1,211]

Good read, agree with almost all of it.  Never thought about the 3rd/5th matches being the same time as the first place, but yeah do those the same time as 7th instead.  Makes total sense...

Edited Friday at 06:40 PM by Gantry

[pamela 683]

The two things that stuck out to me were:

1. The author was surprised that (most) wrestlers only wear singlets for a tiny sliver of time, and that they don't practice, warm-up, or walk around in them. He also noticed how both athletes and fans just sort of reluctantly accepted the singlet, like it's kind of an elephant in the room. Pretty obvious sign that it's time for a change.

2. The author was taken back by the athleticism of wrestlers. Like I literally almost fell out of my chair when Paxton said his impression going in was that wrestling was full of "relatively unimpressive athletes". WTAF, I thought everyone knew wrestling is the toughest sport by far and therefore have the toughest, most well-rounded athletes. His statement was a big eye opener for me.

[grappler6 97]

Someone had a good response on Twitter regarding him not expecting athletes in wrestling.

They essentially said it was because Nomad, CP and Willie were the only wrestlers he knew.

Nicely placed burn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pamela 683]

1 minute ago, grappler6 said:

Someone had a good response on Twitter regarding him not expecting athletes in wrestling.

They essentially said it was because Nomad, CP and Willie were the only wrestlers he knew.

Nicely placed burn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Okay, that's pretty funny. 

Seriously though, I thought Mark Bader was the only D1 wrestler of the bunch?

[russelscout 481]

4 minutes ago, grappler6 said:

Someone had a good response on Twitter regarding him not expecting athletes in wrestling.

They essentially said it was because Nomad, CP and Willie were the only wrestlers he knew.

Nicely placed burn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What exactly about Willie doesn't scream athlete?

[Zebra 487]

Not college related but when I was helping run JR High and High School tournaments we were treating them as fund raisers. I know a lot of people don't like that but is is reality. I would not have ever run one otherwise because it sucks. 

Because of that I always did 2 things. Have the consolation finals at the same time and the championship finals and have the awards at the end. It keeps people in the gym longer and we made more money. 

[Lipdrag 13]

40 minutes ago, Zebra said:

Not college related but when I was helping run JR High and High School tournaments we were treating them as fund raisers. I know a lot of people don't like that but is is reality. I would not have ever run one otherwise because it sucks. 

Because of that I always did 2 things. Have the consolation finals at the same time and the championship finals and have the awards at the end. It keeps people in the gym longer and we made more money. 

I agree with doing this at those the kid levels and in season tournaments.  However, THE CHAMPIONSHIPS?!?  For the premier wrestling conference in the country?  Ridiculous.  Even the BIG TEN and NCAA Semifinals should have only two mats going.  Get that side wrestle-back stuff out of here when the main event is ongoing.

[iGranby 132]

54 minutes ago, pamela said:

Okay, that's pretty funny. 

Seriously though, I thought Mark Bader was the only D1 wrestler of the bunch?

Whoever runs their sound booth for FRL was a D1 wrestler. Bratke wrestled at Ohio. Then theres Velliquette, but he's not exactly part of the FRL crew. 

[steamboat_charlie v2 260]

1 hour ago, pamela said:

2. The author was taken back by the athleticism of wrestlers. Like I literally almost fell out of my chair when Paxton said his impression going in was that wrestling was full of "relatively unimpressive athletes". WTAF, I thought everyone knew wrestling is the toughest sport by far and therefore have the toughest, most well-rounded athletes. His statement was a big eye opener for me.

I think that's actually a pretty common perception just based on the structure of high school teams.  Since almost no wrestling teams have "tryouts" and we'll let virtually anyone wrestle JV, some portion of every high school squad is made up of wildly unathletic kids.  If you'd never been exposed to high-level wrestling I could see why you'd have that view.

I also do think other sports respect wrestling as one of, if not the, toughest sports.  They just don't quite understand the athleticism and skillset required to be elite.  

Edited Friday at 08:41 PM by steamboat_charlie v2

[Dr. Novak 55]

Yes it's tough, very tough but for the most part wrestlers are not natural athletes.  Most of the little guys (150 and less) haven't played other sports.

[russelscout 481]

1 minute ago, Dr. Novak said:

Yes it's tough, very tough but for the most part wrestlers are not natural athletes.  Most of the little guys (150 and less) haven't played other sports.

I know lots of really really small guys in wrestling that tried their hand at football, probably for too long. Recruited a 126 lber once who was the leading tackler on his state championship football team(large class).

[JohnG 5]

That was a really enjoyable article.  

 

I strongly agree with the comment about wrestling place bouts next to the finals.  The EIWA made this change a few years ago and I hated it.  I enjoy watching the finals match but if my team's guy is wrestling for 3rd or 5th I'm paying zero attention to the finals.  And I enjoy watching the finals.  Get the placement bouts done earlier!