russelscout 1,573 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6394462-an-outsiders-take-on-the-big-ten-championships I really enjoyed this read for others who may not have seen it. I like the perspective outside of the echo chamber. 1 PSUMike reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iGranby 175 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 I really enjoyed the article. Everyone who I recommended it to (who actually read it) also enjoyed. Some points I really liked: Singlets- No need to debate, but yeah. Conference finals- I didnt agree at first, but the more I thought about it the more I'm on board. There can be spectacle and ceremony for the consolation finals, they deserve it and they're awesome- but a conference championship deserves its own stage. 1 PSUMike reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigerfan 161 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 I too, liked the fresh perspective. No singlets = no brainer. Increasing the spectacle/entertainment value of the sport in general/finals in particular is something I've been advocating for a long time. We are competing with every other recreational/entertainment minute there is, and we have to put out a better product if we want to grow the sport. That doesn't have to mean tweaking the rules constantly (although that can be part of it). 10 years ago we had an announcer at Mizzou duals who did announcing for multiple sports for the uni, didn't know the wrestlers names, knew next to nothing about the sport, and there was never lights/smoke/fireworks/music/videos/etc. We changed all that to improve the "show". It matters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TobusRex 1,852 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 I've long advocated wrestling in the nude except for oversized, ornate codpieces of the finest silver. How to we do this without straps, you ask. I reply: Velcro. 6 Yellow_Medal, Dr. Novak, Housebuye and 3 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steamboat_charlie v2 939 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 I enjoyed the article as well. We're getting there on the singlets. I would make headgear optional as well personally but understand the arguments against it. Re: conference finals, I agree 100%. Was at the tournament remember having the exact same thoughts... why am I not focused on the first place bout? Seems like an obvious improvement. And another note... why are we still doing the podium in between matches? Let's do it at the end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
russelscout 1,573 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said: I enjoyed the article as well. We're getting there on the singlets. I would make headgear optional as well personally but understand the arguments against it. Re: conference finals, I agree 100%. Was at the tournament remember having the exact same thoughts... why am I not focused on the first place bout? Seems like an obvious improvement. And another note... why are we still doing the podium in between matches? Let's do it at the end. Podium works well with commercial breaks though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steamboat_charlie v2 939 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, russelscout said: Podium works well with commercial breaks though. Fair point. I've just always found it annoying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigerfan 161 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said: Fair point. I've just always found it annoying. I've felt the same way. When I do, I take a moment to remember these are not pros getting paid to perform for my entertainment, but hard-working students who deserve to be recognized for their achievements by the whole crowd, not just friends/family who stick around after the event is over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steamboat_charlie v2 939 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, tigerfan said: I've felt the same way. When I do, I take a moment to remember these are not pros getting paid to perform for my entertainment, but hard-working students who deserve to be recognized for their achievements by the whole crowd, not just friends/family who stick around after the event is over. In my view, it's not really for the wrestlers. I think if you polled the competitors, most would just as soon eliminate the whole podium process altogether. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TobusRex 1,852 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said: In my view, it's not really for the wrestlers. I think if you polled the competitors, most would just as soon eliminate the whole podium process altogether. At some tournaments I went to they handed them out between finals matches. That was convenient, I could go sit with dad and laugh about the heavies :. Edited March 15, 2019 by TobusRex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Novak 147 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 Wrestling consolation finals next to a finals match is about the dumbest thing ever so couldn't agree more with the author. Now everybody does it except the National finals. It really is awful. 1 pamela reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gimpeltf 1,531 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, Dr. Novak said: Wrestling consolation finals next to a finals match is about the dumbest thing ever so couldn't agree more with the author. Now everybody does it except the National finals. It really is awful. And for the most part (other than maybe MSG) Session 5 is pretty much empty. And I've heard some coaches suggest that it seems to help make the finals higher scoring affairs than when left out by themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Novak 147 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 If we listened to wrestling coaches the sport would be extinct. Most have no clue how to market and promote. Too busy chewing their knuckles or pretending they're still wrestling...down in a crouch like Pritzlaff and T. Brands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gantry 1,675 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) Good read, agree with almost all of it. Never thought about the 3rd/5th matches being the same time as the first place, but yeah do those the same time as 7th instead. Makes total sense... Edited March 15, 2019 by Gantry 1 PSUMike reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pamela 1,334 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 The two things that stuck out to me were: 1. The author was surprised that (most) wrestlers only wear singlets for a tiny sliver of time, and that they don't practice, warm-up, or walk around in them. He also noticed how both athletes and fans just sort of reluctantly accepted the singlet, like it's kind of an elephant in the room. Pretty obvious sign that it's time for a change. 2. The author was taken back by the athleticism of wrestlers. Like I literally almost fell out of my chair when Paxton said his impression going in was that wrestling was full of "relatively unimpressive athletes". WTAF, I thought everyone knew wrestling is the toughest sport by far and therefore have the toughest, most well-rounded athletes. His statement was a big eye opener for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler6 135 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 Someone had a good response on Twitter regarding him not expecting athletes in wrestling.They essentially said it was because Nomad, CP and Willie were the only wrestlers he knew. Nicely placed burn Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4 2 PSUMike, iGranby, portajohn and 3 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pamela 1,334 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, grappler6 said: Someone had a good response on Twitter regarding him not expecting athletes in wrestling. They essentially said it was because Nomad, CP and Willie were the only wrestlers he knew. Nicely placed burn Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Okay, that's pretty funny. Seriously though, I thought Mark Bader was the only D1 wrestler of the bunch? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
russelscout 1,573 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, grappler6 said: Someone had a good response on Twitter regarding him not expecting athletes in wrestling. They essentially said it was because Nomad, CP and Willie were the only wrestlers he knew. Nicely placed burn Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk What exactly about Willie doesn't scream athlete? 1 steamboat_charlie v2 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zebra 545 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 Not college related but when I was helping run JR High and High School tournaments we were treating them as fund raisers. I know a lot of people don't like that but is is reality. I would not have ever run one otherwise because it sucks. Because of that I always did 2 things. Have the consolation finals at the same time and the championship finals and have the awards at the end. It keeps people in the gym longer and we made more money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lipdrag 35 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 40 minutes ago, Zebra said: Not college related but when I was helping run JR High and High School tournaments we were treating them as fund raisers. I know a lot of people don't like that but is is reality. I would not have ever run one otherwise because it sucks. Because of that I always did 2 things. Have the consolation finals at the same time and the championship finals and have the awards at the end. It keeps people in the gym longer and we made more money. I agree with doing this at those the kid levels and in season tournaments. However, THE CHAMPIONSHIPS?!? For the premier wrestling conference in the country? Ridiculous. Even the BIG TEN and NCAA Semifinals should have only two mats going. Get that side wrestle-back stuff out of here when the main event is ongoing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iGranby 175 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 54 minutes ago, pamela said: Okay, that's pretty funny. Seriously though, I thought Mark Bader was the only D1 wrestler of the bunch? Whoever runs their sound booth for FRL was a D1 wrestler. Bratke wrestled at Ohio. Then theres Velliquette, but he's not exactly part of the FRL crew. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steamboat_charlie v2 939 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, pamela said: 2. The author was taken back by the athleticism of wrestlers. Like I literally almost fell out of my chair when Paxton said his impression going in was that wrestling was full of "relatively unimpressive athletes". WTAF, I thought everyone knew wrestling is the toughest sport by far and therefore have the toughest, most well-rounded athletes. His statement was a big eye opener for me. I think that's actually a pretty common perception just based on the structure of high school teams. Since almost no wrestling teams have "tryouts" and we'll let virtually anyone wrestle JV, some portion of every high school squad is made up of wildly unathletic kids. If you'd never been exposed to high-level wrestling I could see why you'd have that view. I also do think other sports respect wrestling as one of, if not the, toughest sports. They just don't quite understand the athleticism and skillset required to be elite. Edited March 15, 2019 by steamboat_charlie v2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Novak 147 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 Yes it's tough, very tough but for the most part wrestlers are not natural athletes. Most of the little guys (150 and less) haven't played other sports. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
russelscout 1,573 Report post Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Dr. Novak said: Yes it's tough, very tough but for the most part wrestlers are not natural athletes. Most of the little guys (150 and less) haven't played other sports. I know lots of really really small guys in wrestling that tried their hand at football, probably for too long. Recruited a 126 lber once who was the leading tackler on his state championship football team(large class). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG 10 Report post Posted March 16, 2019 That was a really enjoyable article. I strongly agree with the comment about wrestling place bouts next to the finals. The EIWA made this change a few years ago and I hated it. I enjoy watching the finals match but if my team's guy is wrestling for 3rd or 5th I'm paying zero attention to the finals. And I enjoy watching the finals. Get the placement bouts done earlier! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites