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If you could start/restart 10 NCAA Programs--Which Ones Would You Choose

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Obviously there are no Title IX implications to this thought.

1.) Notre Dame--great location and name recognition

2.) Clemson--rebuild the program in the ACC

3.) Georgia Tech--add to the ACC

4.) Florida State--add to the ACC

5.) Texas--Big 12 addition to get team in state

6.) Texas Tech--Big 12 addition get a 2nd team in Texas

7.) Utah--PAC 12

8.) Colorado--PAC 12

9.) Oregon--PAC 12 plus pacific NW addtion

10.) Toledo--alumni reasons and it is centrally located to a lot of good wrestling

 

What's your list?

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How can the(a) flagship University of a state with quality wrestling lack the sport?

Berkley and/or UCLA (or 2-3 other UC campuses)

Washington or W St

Utah

Colorado

This of course would make PAC 12 a decent sized conference

Texas

Georgia

Florida 

Kansas or Kansas st

What are the remaining somewhat strong states without flagship school with D1 Wrestling??? 

I am giessing:

Tenn

Kent

Idaho

Nevada

Montana

Delaware

Mass

Conn

Obviously, if Geo, Fla, Al. Kent, Tenn restarted, then, With Mo (and maybe Tex A&M) you could again have an SEC tourn

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42 minutes ago, RichB said:

 

Obviously, if Geo, Fla, Al. Kent, Tenn restarted, then, With Mo (and maybe Tex A&M) you could again have an SEC tourn

Don’t forget that Auburn & LSU had teams as well.  

My top 10 would be:

1.  Syracuse (duh)

2.  Notre Dame (f’ing cheatin’ Lou Holtz )

3.  Washington (duh)

4.  UCLA (how easy would it be to recruit here?)

5.  Colorado (we need a real D1 school here)

6.  North Texas (lots of reasons for this)

7.  Idaho St (screw BSU)

8.  Florida (see UCLA recruiting)

9.  Every other SEC school

10.  Kansas St (screw kU)

Edited by fudge_tunnel

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Absolutely the University of Georgia. The state of Georgia has 12 NCAA qualifiers this year, but zero D1 programs.

California could also use a big-school option that is not too difficult to get into. Maybe San Diego State.

Edited by Katie

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1.  Oregon

2.  Boise State

3.  Clemson

4.  University of Georgia

5.  University of Tennessee

6.  University of Florida

7.  University of Texas or Texas A&M

8.  Miami University (in OH)

9.  LSU

10.  Notre Dame

 

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Louisiana State: Reintroduce SEC college wrestling with a former borderline top 10/15 team.

Georgia: Good high school programs, a great outlet for them.

Alabama: Not really an SEC power during the wrestling days, but would have a lot of fan excitement. Money in the athletic department would be bigtime.

Florida: Adding another SEC team would make a 5 team conference with Missouri, or make a superconference with the SoCon. 

Washington: Adding a new Pac 12 team and stick it to Oregon.

Boise State: Any explanation needed?

Texas: Add a power to the Big 12. The money their department brings in could make them very good.

Kansas State: Another midwestern state with good wrestling but no D-I.

Florida State: Add more depth to the ACC and make an interesting rivalry with Florida.

Clemson: Former ACC contender who produced a few very good wrestlers.

On my F*** you list: Oregon, Notre Dame, Cal Fullerton, Grand Canyon, University of Arizona, UCLA, and Washington State.

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As an ACC fan I'd love to see the conference grow past 6 teams.  My possibilities are:

Syracuse: Former northeast power.

Clemson: We need a team in SC to challenge all the NC programs. 

Georgia Tech: Atlanta is a big market and Georgia is a big state to have no teams.

Notre Dame and Louisville: Both schools sponsor a lot of sports.  Why not add wrestling?

 

Outside of the ACC I'd like to see Yale restart their program. 

 

Could some of these schools sponsor both women's and men's wrestling to satisfy Title 9 requirements?  

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1. Penn State Lehigh Valley

2. Penn State Berks

3. Penn State Behrend

4. Penn State Greater Allegheny

5. Penn State Wilkes Barre

6. Penn State Beaver

7. Penn State Fayette

8. Penn State DuBois

9. Penn State Altoona

10. Penn State Harrisburg

Ok, on a serious note, here is the list:

10. Marquette University, Milwaukee, WI

9. DePaul University, Chicago IL

8. Texas A&M, College Station, TX

7. Bellevue College, Bellevue/Seattle WA

6. Pepperdine University, Malibu, CA

5. Xavier University, Cincinnati, OH

4. Temple University, Philadelphia, PA

3. UNLV, Las Vegas, NV

2. Butler College, Indianapolis, IN

1. University of Maryland, College Park, MD (Sorry, I couldn't help myself)

Edited by Rugbypoet
misspelled fayette

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Asking a guy like me to narrow it down to only Ten Teams is torture. I'll try.  

10.  Long Beach State
I'll get one of the selfish ones out of the way.  When I was younger I seriously contemplated going to graduate school for creative writing.  LBS has one of the best creative writing MFA's in the country.  They had a team for about twenty years.  I believe they began sometime in the 1950's and their last season I believe was in 1978.  I think they switched off between DI and DII throughout their history as well. I could be wrong about that, but they had both NCAA DI and NCAA DII qualifiers.  15 NCAA qualifiers for 17 NCAA qualifications in DI.  They had some DII All Americans as well.  Really not bad for a small program with a twenty year existence. 

9.  Drake
How a Division I school in the hotbed of Des Moines, Iowa can get away without having a wrestling team is an outright travesty. The rigorous academic requirements would make it difficult for the Bulldogs to compete with the three powerhouses of the Hawkeye state, but I think it'd be cool to have one of the "smart" wrestling teams in the state as well.  Drake wrestling was headed and for the most part solely ran by long time head coach Lonnie Timmerman.  While coach Timmerman never produced an All American he did send wrestlers to the NCAA tournament almost every year that Drake wrestling existed.  64 NCAA qualifiers.  Tons of conference place-winners and champions.  A 364-186-10 Duel Meet record, including going 28-3 in their final season 1992-1993.   Drake football is mediocre at best, and their basketball team isn't nearly as good as it used to be.  A wrestling program would help to put the school on the map. Many outsiders aren't even aware of Iowa's "other" Division I school.  Wrestling would change that. 

8. UCLA 

76 NCAA Division I qualifications, including 13 All Americans and 1 NCAA champion.  They were quite competitive in what is today known as the PAC-12 conference.  Truth to be known, the city of Los Angeles could use a Division I wrestling program.  East LA Community College and a few other nearby community colleges are about the only collegiate wrestling in the city.  Considering that the growth of high school wrestling in the area, it'd be nice to have a nearby school for those kids to go. 

7. Washington

84 NCAA qualifiers, 18 All Americans and  2 NCAA champions.  The home of Larry Owings,  the guy who upset Dan Gable in the 1970 NCAA tournament.  West coast wrestling needs a revival.  Along with UCLA, and any other program that would add, I think Washington would be a great place to reinstate a program.  

6. UNLV
I follow the UNLV club team on twitter and facebook and it gets me excited to think that we could see a varsity program at UNLV again.  For crying out loud, we still compete in THEIR tournament every year.  Yes, the CKLV was originally started and hosted by UNLV for those that are unaware.  It has a very short existence, not sure exactly how long but I think ten years or less.  In that time 14 NCAA qualifiers and HWT Kahlan O'Hara captured conference titles and two All American finishes for the Runnin' Rebels.  My girlfriend, my best friend and his girlfriend want to go out to Vegas on a vacation one of these winters.  I don't think I could talk them into letting me attend CKLV the whole time, but I know I'd sneak away for a UNLV home dual meet!  

5. Notre Dame 

I'll forever be critical of Dick Rosenthal and the administration of Notre Dame for what they did in 1993.  To disgrace the memory of Pat O'Connor and to outright go against the agreement they had with Bucky O'Connor in my opinion is criminal.  If not criminal, unethical and certainly immoral.  42 NCAA qualifiers, including five All Americans.  What's funny is that the Fighting Irish eliminated wrestling right as they had begun a quest to get better and start being more competitive.  Ever hear of a guy named Mark Branch who ended up being a two time champion/four time NCAA finalist for the Oklahoma State Cowboys.  Had it not been for Notre Dame dropping their program, he'd have been fighting for the Irish.  Absolute rubbish that the school dropped their wrestling program.  Absolute bull. 

4. Kansas State 

Or Kansas or Witchita State.  I go with KSU because it had a richer program than Kansas and Witchita to my knowledge never had wrestling.   113 NCAA qualifiers for the Wildcats including 16 All Americans and 1 National Champion.  Never went a year in its existence without sending a wrestler to the NCAA championships.  If you look at the history of wrestling, Kansas has produced some great high school wrestlers.  Off the top of my head three time All American/NCAA champion Zach Roberson.   I'll give the state credit in that it has 10 or 11 (Pinnum is the guy to ask here) collegiate wrestling programs in the state, but they really need a Division I program. 

3.  Clemson 

I'm happier than a pig in "   " that Arkansas-Little Rock is adding wrestling next season, as well a Presbyterian.  Two new programs is already great, but icing on the top that both are in the south.  The hard work of individuals like Pat Smith and Mike Moyer is obviously paying off as wrestling continues to grow and become popular in areas where it either barely hung on or didn't exist at all.   I hope that it continues to grow and I think Clemson would be an excellent addition.  For one the school needs wrestling.  It could easily be the most competitive and successful program on campus.  59 NCAA qualifiers, 8 All Americans,  three National champions (Sammie Henson won twice).  Not to mention a seventh place finish at the 1994 NCAA tournament,  a year before the program was dropped.  Great place to reinstate wrestling. 

2. Anywhere in the State of Georgia
1.  Anywhere in the State of Florida 


It's already been mentioned, but let me reiterate, both Florida and Georgia for the past sixty years have produced some great high school talent.  Look at the number of NCAA qualifiers this year alone from Georgia and Florida.  It's like that every year.  Tons of kids who have made varsity lineups at colleges and universities all around the country grew up in Georgia and Florida.  I can name NCAA qualifiers and All Americans from year's past and maybe even NCAA champions (not 100% positive on that.)   Fact of the matter is when it comes to states without Division I wrestling, Georgia and Florida are hands down, indisputably the two best wrestling states in the country.  I don't get how Florida producing the mass amount of talent that it does year in and year out can only have one varsity wrestling program in the entire state.  One.  Southeastern and NAIA program.    Georgia is better, but not by much. I believe the Peach State has four or five programs. Not nearly enough for the amount of talent the state produces. 


There you go.   Those are my 10. 

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I want to say this too.   I love the idea of Division I wrestling in Texas, but I think if we were to try and add wrestling in the Long Star state we'd need to put it at a University that isn't too far away from nearby Oklahoma.  If for nothing else, recruiting purposes.  It amazes me that (arguably) the best wrestler in the nation right now, Bo Nickal is from Texas.  It makes one wonder if the Longhorns or the Aggies or the Minors or the Raiders had a wrestling program if we'd have seen him at one of those schools.   Varsity wrestling in Texas is twenty years old and even counting private school wrestling, it's still fairly young.  Makes you wonder the amount of talent we've missed out on because it took so long to get wrestling into Texas.  

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3 hours ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

I want to say this too.   I love the idea of Division I wrestling in Texas, but I think if we were to try and add wrestling in the Long Star state we'd need to put it at a University that isn't too far away from nearby Oklahoma.  If for nothing else, recruiting purposes.  It amazes me that (arguably) the best wrestler in the nation right now, Bo Nickal is from Texas.  It makes one wonder if the Longhorns or the Aggies or the Minors or the Raiders had a wrestling program if we'd have seen him at one of those schools.   Varsity wrestling in Texas is twenty years old and even counting private school wrestling, it's still fairly young.  Makes you wonder the amount of talent we've missed out on because it took so long to get wrestling into Texas.  

JT-

I mentioned in my post U of North Texas, rather than UT, aTm or TT.  The reasons for this are:

1.  They already have a club team, coached by Andre Metzger.  I coached a youth club team in Argyle, and he/they used our room for practice.  Not sure if you’d want Andre as the face of a new program (he’s insane), but he definitely has the passion the get one started  

2.  Denton’s proximity to Oklahoma (45 min from the state line), DFW and the panhandle (5 hrs away).  Fertile recruiting ground 

3.  UNT’s growing meteorically, relatively easy to get into a far less expensive than the other TX D1 schools

4.  Downtown Denton has been labeled “little Austin”, and there’s a reason for that. 

5. The chances the UT or aTm get wrestling are somewhere between 0-0.1%.  

6.  Wouldn’t help UNT that none of the Denton ISD high schools have wrestling, however most all other Denton CO, Tarrant CO & Collin CO ISD’s have it.  Most of those many dozen high schools easily have over 2k kids, with a lot of over 3k (Allen has over 6k).  Lots of kids to choose from 

Edited by fudge_tunnel

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42 minutes ago, fudge_tunnel said:

JT-

I mentioned in my post U of North Texas, rather than UT, aTm or TT.  The reasons for this are:

1.  They already have a club team, coached by Andre Metzger.  I coached a youth club team in Argyle, and he/they used our room for practice.  Not sure if you’d want Andre as the face of a new program (he’s insane), but he definitely has the passion the get one started  

2.  Denton’s proximity to Oklahoma (45 min from the state line), DFW and the panhandle (5 hrs away).  Fertile recruiting ground 

3.  UNT’s growing meteorically, relatively easy to get into a far less expensive than the other TX D1 schools

4.  Downtown Denton has been labeled “little Austin”, and there’s a reason for that. 

5. The chances the UT or aTm get wrestling are somewhere between 0-0.1%.  

6.  Wouldn’t help UNT that none of the Denton ISD high schools have wrestling, however most all other Denton CO, Tarrant CO & Collin CO ISD’s have it.  Most of those many dozen high schools easily have over 2k kids, with a lot of over 3k (Allen has over 6k).  Lots of kids to choose from 

Ironically enough Steve Austin (as in Stone Cold) sorta brought that up in one of his podcasts a while back.  He was asked if he had ever done amateur wrestling while in school and he replied that he had not, mainly because the area he grew up never had it.  He mentioned it was something he would have liked to have tried and could have imagined himself being successful at.  He played football for the Owls back in the day.  It's most certainly an area of Texas where I think collegiate wrestling could thrive.  

As to Metzger, I can think of worse and far more crazier. 

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19 hours ago, RichB said:

How can the(a) flagship University of a state with quality wrestling lack the sport?

Berkley and/or UCLA (or 2-3 other UC campuses)

Washington or W St

Utah

Colorado

This of course would make PAC 12 a decent sized conference

Agree 100%! I would want wrestling restarted with as many Pac-12 or Pac affiliate schools as possible since the # of programs seems really sparse out West.  So, I'd pick any 7 of Cal, UCLA, USC, UW, CU, UA, UO, WSU, Utah + Texas, Florida, and FSU since they are big-population states that could help build some D1 wrestling momentum in their conferences and regions.

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After looking at high school participation rates, here are my updated thoughts:

  • California has by far the most high school participants (22.4k) at almost twice second-place Illinois. California also consistently produces lots of AAs. So, IMO, California definitely needs a big, name-brand program kids have a reasonable shot of getting into grade-wise. My pick was San Diego State.
  • Texas has lots of high school participants (10.7k), in the same range as Ohio and Pennsylvania. However, Texas has no D1 programs. UT Austin or Texas A&M would be great.
  • Washington also has lots of high school participants (9k), which is in the range of Pennsylvania, Michigan, and New Jersey. University of Washington or Washington State would be wonderful.
  • As I noted before, Georgia has a lot of high-end talent, with 12 NCAA qualifiers this year. Georgia also has a lot of high school wrestlers. Yet, the state has no D1 programs. University of Georgia would be a great place for a program.
  • Florida has a lot of high school teams, and has historically produced a lot of really tough wrestlers. So Florida or Florida State might be good places for new programs.

 

 

Edited by Katie

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All of the people that think they're funny by stating Maryland.  It's that type of attitude that gets wrestling programs cut in the first place.  I've studied the history of dropped wrestling programs.  A lack of fan interest, often comes up when administrations and athletic directors are questioned for why wrestling was dropped.  SEC wrestling as much as people whine and cry about being eliminated, didn't draw outside of the yearly conference tournament.  Even that wasn't that big of a draw.  When Chattanooga used to go to Knoxville to dual Tennessee, there were more fans in the stands from Chattanooga, than there was from Tennessee.  That's saying something. 

A dual between Florida and Alabama in 1977 only drew 107 people.  There were some from what I hear that drew a 1/3 of that. 

How many All Americans will Florida have this year in wrestling?  0   Same as Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn and Louisiana State. 

Youssif Hemida could be one for Maryland.  

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