If you could start/restart 10 NCAA Programs--Which Ones Would You Choose

[KTG119 820]

JMU

[portajohn 464]

7 hours ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

I want to say this too.   I love the idea of Division I wrestling in Texas, but I think if we were to try and add wrestling in the Long Star state we'd need to put it at a University that isn't too far away from nearby Oklahoma.  If for nothing else, recruiting purposes.  It amazes me that (arguably) the best wrestler in the nation right now, Bo Nickal is from Texas.  It makes one wonder if the Longhorns or the Aggies or the Minors or the Raiders had a wrestling program if we'd have seen him at one of those schools.   Varsity wrestling in Texas is twenty years old and even counting private school wrestling, it's still fairly young.  Makes you wonder the amount of talent we've missed out on because it took so long to get wrestling into Texas.  

Wonder to see how the Ferrari brothers pan out in college (like Bo also from Allen TX before moving to Jersey)

[Old Corps 174]

6 hours ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

All of the people that think they're funny by stating Maryland.  It's that type of attitude that gets wrestling programs cut in the first place.  I've studied the history of dropped wrestling programs.  A lack of fan interest, often comes up when administrations and athletic directors are questioned for why wrestling was dropped.  SEC wrestling as much as people whine and cry about being eliminated, didn't draw outside of the yearly conference tournament.  Even that wasn't that big of a draw.  When Chattanooga used to go to Knoxville to dual Tennessee, there were more fans in the stands from Chattanooga, than there was from Tennessee.  That's saying something. 

A dual between Florida and Alabama in 1977 only drew 107 people.  There were some from what I hear that drew a 1/3 of that. 

How many All Americans will Florida have this year in wrestling?  0   Same as Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn and Louisiana State. 

Youssif Hemida could be one for Maryland.  

I don’t think it’s logical to compare fan interest in the South today to 1977. 

Back then, there was very little high school wrestling going on in southern states. 

Over the past 25 years or so (and especially the past 15) the number of high school teams in these states has increased exponentially. 

If a few DI programs opened up in Florida and Georgia, giving the very best kids from the South a reason to staff close to home, I think such programs could be Top 20 within several years and be top ten contenders after that. 

[Old Corps 174]

6 hours ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

All of the people that think they're funny by stating Maryland.  It's that type of attitude that gets wrestling programs cut in the first place.  I've studied the history of dropped wrestling programs.  A lack of fan interest, often comes up when administrations and athletic directors are questioned for why wrestling was dropped.  SEC wrestling as much as people whine and cry about being eliminated, didn't draw outside of the yearly conference tournament.  Even that wasn't that big of a draw.  When Chattanooga used to go to Knoxville to dual Tennessee, there were more fans in the stands from Chattanooga, than there was from Tennessee.  That's saying something. 

A dual between Florida and Alabama in 1977 only drew 107 people.  There were some from what I hear that drew a 1/3 of that. 

How many All Americans will Florida have this year in wrestling?  0   Same as Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn and Louisiana State. 

Youssif Hemida could be one for Maryland.  

I don’t think it’s logical to compare fan interest in the South today to 1977. 

Back then, there was very little high school wrestling going on in southern states. 

Over the past 25 years or so (and especially the past 15) the number of high school teams in these states has increased exponentially. 

If a few DI programs opened up in Florida and Georgia, giving the very best kids from the South a reason to staff close to home, I think such programs could be Top 20 within several years and be top ten contenders after that. 

[Old Corps 174]

6 hours ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

All of the people that think they're funny by stating Maryland.  It's that type of attitude that gets wrestling programs cut in the first place.  I've studied the history of dropped wrestling programs.  A lack of fan interest, often comes up when administrations and athletic directors are questioned for why wrestling was dropped.  SEC wrestling as much as people whine and cry about being eliminated, didn't draw outside of the yearly conference tournament.  Even that wasn't that big of a draw.  When Chattanooga used to go to Knoxville to dual Tennessee, there were more fans in the stands from Chattanooga, than there was from Tennessee.  That's saying something. 

A dual between Florida and Alabama in 1977 only drew 107 people.  There were some from what I hear that drew a 1/3 of that. 

How many All Americans will Florida have this year in wrestling?  0   Same as Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn and Louisiana State. 

Youssif Hemida could be one for Maryland.  

I don’t think it’s logical to compare fan interest in the South today to 1977. 

Back then, there was very little high school wrestling going on in southern states. 

Over the past 25 years or so (and especially the past 15) the number of high school teams in these states has increased exponentially. 

If a few DI programs opened up in Florida and Georgia, giving the very best kids from the South a reason to staff close to home, I think such programs could be Top 20 within several years and be top ten contenders after that. 

[Old Corps 174]

6 hours ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

All of the people that think they're funny by stating Maryland.  It's that type of attitude that gets wrestling programs cut in the first place.  I've studied the history of dropped wrestling programs.  A lack of fan interest, often comes up when administrations and athletic directors are questioned for why wrestling was dropped.  SEC wrestling as much as people whine and cry about being eliminated, didn't draw outside of the yearly conference tournament.  Even that wasn't that big of a draw.  When Chattanooga used to go to Knoxville to dual Tennessee, there were more fans in the stands from Chattanooga, than there was from Tennessee.  That's saying something. 

A dual between Florida and Alabama in 1977 only drew 107 people.  There were some from what I hear that drew a 1/3 of that. 

How many All Americans will Florida have this year in wrestling?  0   Same as Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn and Louisiana State. 

Youssif Hemida could be one for Maryland.  

I don’t think it’s logical to compare fan interest in the South today to 1977. 

Back then, there was very little high school wrestling going on in southern states. 

Over the past 25 years or so (and especially the past 15) the number of high school teams in these states has increased exponentially. 

If a few DI programs opened up in Florida and Georgia, giving the very best kids from the South a reason to staff close to home, I think such programs could be Top 20 within several years and be top ten contenders after that. 

[Old Corps 174]

6 hours ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

All of the people that think they're funny by stating Maryland.  It's that type of attitude that gets wrestling programs cut in the first place.  I've studied the history of dropped wrestling programs.  A lack of fan interest, often comes up when administrations and athletic directors are questioned for why wrestling was dropped.  SEC wrestling as much as people whine and cry about being eliminated, didn't draw outside of the yearly conference tournament.  Even that wasn't that big of a draw.  When Chattanooga used to go to Knoxville to dual Tennessee, there were more fans in the stands from Chattanooga, than there was from Tennessee.  That's saying something. 

A dual between Florida and Alabama in 1977 only drew 107 people.  There were some from what I hear that drew a 1/3 of that. 

How many All Americans will Florida have this year in wrestling?  0   Same as Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn and Louisiana State. 

Youssif Hemida could be one for Maryland.  

 

Sorry about these multiple posts. I have no idea how this happened. 

I hope an admin spots this and cleans up the mess. 

My apologies!

Edited March 17, 2019 by Old Corps

[scramble 156]

University of Florida

Florida State

Georgia

Texas A & M

Texas Tech

Kansas State

Oregon

Washington State

University of Arkansas, Fayetteville

LSU or Alabama

I don't think we need too many more teams right now in the NY, PA, OH area.  We definitely need more in the Southeast and could use a few more in the NW.  Then getting some big 12 teams to add.  

[RichB 227]

8 hours ago, scramble said:

 

I don't think we need too many more teams right now in the NY, PA, OH area.  We definitely need more in the Southeast and could use a few more in the NW.  Then getting some big 12 teams to add.  

I would like to see Temple reinstate. I count 7 other private D1 schools in, Pa, five of them Catholic. How can SHU be the only Catholic D1 school in the country.

I think all the D2 teams are in PSAC they could all support wrestling if they had the money.

And a half dozen D3.

[lu1979 568]

I will be area centric and wish for:

UConn

Central CT

Southern CT

Eastern CT

Yale

Syracuse

Boston College

LSU

Boise St

Oregon

 

[headache 149]

Oklahoma.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 102]

11 hours ago, Old Corps said:

I don’t think it’s logical to compare fan interest in the South today to 1977. 

Back then, there was very little high school wrestling going on in southern states. 

Over the past 25 years or so (and especially the past 15) the number of high school teams in these states has increased exponentially. 

If a few DI programs opened up in Florida and Georgia, giving the very best kids from the South a reason to staff close to home, I think such programs could be Top 20 within several years and be top ten contenders after that. 

There was more high school wrestling in Georgia, Florida and Alabama than you would think.  When looking at lineups for Auburn and Alabama in the 70's, I was surprised at how many kids were actually from Alabama or nearby states. A lot more than I imagined. Compared to looking at lineups for Louisiana State, which were made up of kids from Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan and other states.  Wasn't a single kid from Louisiana on the roster. 

I couldn't agree more with your final statement.  Georgia, Georgia State, Georgia Tech, Florida, Florida State, Florida A&M, Central Florida, South Florida, North Florida, Stetson, I mean you name it, any of those schools within five years could be a top twenty program.  You're absolutely correct about that. 

 

[jon_osu 27]

: Oklahoma State vs UT

 

in the 1914-15 dual, there were 5 matches & the final score was 17.5 to 7.5 in favor of Texas.

Edited March 18, 2019 by jon_osu

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 102]

2 minutes ago, jon_osu said:

: Oklahoma State vs UT

In all of my research other than what you posted here, the only information I've been able to find on the University of Texas wrestling program is that of HWT Ralph Hammonds, who took 2nd at the NCAA's. 

[RichB 227]

Someone earlier in this thread stated screw these XXX schools. I kind of thought that about Syracuse, because I don't think the wrestling Alumni did sufficient to save the program, unlike say other Orange schools Princeton + Bucknell.

Then it occurred to me, what it Minnesota Dome works out with 150,000 attendance? Carrier dOme is the only Domed Stadium east of Detroit (north of Georgia). Could we try Nationals there, possibly "shaming" the U into  restarting the program. 

[dmm53 624]

Bloomsburg (yes, I know; it sort of still exists).  Needs a restart.  There were some great years. The Bonomo brothers.  And Floyd "Shorty" Hitchcock if one travels back in time. 

[Gantry 1,872]

3 hours ago, jon_osu said:

: Oklahoma State vs UT

How did you get half points in duals back then, a tie and no OT?

[TripNSweep 795]

On 3/15/2019 at 8:32 PM, RichB said:

NCAA is not going to recognize a new conference (SEC) with only 5 teams. Tennessee is a state that usually produces a couple quality wrestlers. SO

I'm looking at geography.  Georgia, Alabama, Florida and Louisiana are all close to eachother within a few hours driving so conference duals would be not a problem, other than Mizzou.  Missouri is the only outlier and we know they aren't going to drop wrestling.  The idea with those 4 would be the impetus to start SEC wrestling at other schools.  I think if the other schools saw what was coming in from wrestling, like bragging rights for winning, they would have more people put pressure on to start programs.  Growing wrestling in that part of the country would be key towards long term success and retention.  The NCAA recordnigzed the Big 12 for years with only 5 teams.  The SEC wouldn't want to share with the SoCon or anyone else.  Get wrestling introduced at big market schools like UGA, Texas, etc. and kids will come and they will be successful within their conference at least.  I can't imagine any fan of an SEC school not bragging that their wrestling team won a conference title.  

[scramble 156]

3 hours ago, RichB said:

Someone earlier in this thread stated screw these XXX schools. I kind of thought that about Syracuse, because I don't think the wrestling Alumni did sufficient to save the program, unlike say other Orange schools Princeton + Bucknell.

Then it occurred to me, what it Minnesota Dome works out with 150,000 attendance? Carrier dOme is the only Domed Stadium east of Detroit (north of Georgia). Could we try Nationals there, possibly "shaming" the U into  restarting the program. 

True about Clemson.  With that said it worked out great for Missouri.  They landed Smith after there one year pickup and drop.  

Also,. I don't think there was much if any wrestling in Louisiana back then at the HS level. If so it wasn't to much I don't think. 

[RichB 227]

NCAA grandfathered Big 12 in with 5. Same with PAC 12. Not likely for a "new" program. I suspect the state of Tennessee regularly produces more NCAA qualifiers than Alab and La combined, pretty sure you could include Miss and Ark in that group, maybe even So Carolina.

[ScarletKnight 82]

Seton Hall 1.  

Then some of the colleges that had champs (Syracuse, Clemson, Lsu, Ucla, Oregon, Temple) 

Schools that were good at one time (Notre Dame, Boise St (i know they had finalists, not sure about champs).   

 

 

[BigTimeFan 1,141]

Syracuse. It’s sad that Cornell doesn’t have any competition in upstate New York. 

This thread is great and highlights the awesome knowledge base of people on these threads. It’s also sad because it shows how far wrestling has sunk in the past three or four decades. 

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 102]

4 hours ago, dmm53 said:

Bloomsburg (yes, I know; it sort of still exists).  Needs a restart.  There were some great years. The Bonomo brothers.  And Floyd "Shorty" Hitchcock if one travels back in time. 

It'd help if they got more respect than what they do from the rankings/seeding committees.  In reality, Trevor Allard at 184 lbs WAS qualification material and easily could have been number 32 or 33.  I blame the fact that Bloomsburg has a weaker schedule with no participation in the large in season tournaments of CKLV, RENO, Southern Scuffle or Midlands.   

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 102]

3 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

I'm looking at geography.  Georgia, Alabama, Florida and Louisiana are all close to eachother within a few hours driving so conference duals would be not a problem, other than Mizzou.  Missouri is the only outlier and we know they aren't going to drop wrestling.  The idea with those 4 would be the impetus to start SEC wrestling at other schools.  I think if the other schools saw what was coming in from wrestling, like bragging rights for winning, they would have more people put pressure on to start programs.  Growing wrestling in that part of the country would be key towards long term success and retention.  The NCAA recordnigzed the Big 12 for years with only 5 teams.  The SEC wouldn't want to share with the SoCon or anyone else.  Get wrestling introduced at big market schools like UGA, Texas, etc. and kids will come and they will be successful within their conference at least.  I can't imagine any fan of an SEC school not bragging that their wrestling team won a conference title.  

SEC Conference Wrestling Champions 
1970 LSU
1971 LSU
1972 LSU
1973 Auburn
1974 Auburn
1975 Auburn
1976 Florida
1977 Kentucky
1978 Kentucky
1979 LSU
1980 LSU
1981 Auburn 

And upon winning the Conference title, sending five to the NCAA's, three of which were AA's, Pat Dye walked into the wrestling room muttered that it'd make a great training facility for the football program and announced shortly thereafter that wrestling would be discontinued. 


 

[jon_osu 27]

6 hours ago, JohnnyThompsonnum1 said:

In all of my research other than what you posted here, the only information I've been able to find on the University of Texas wrestling program is that of HWT Ralph Hammonds, who took 2nd at the NCAA's. 

 

     have you looked here?