Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
D3UC157

3 point take down?

Recommended Posts

I know many people are in favor of the 3 pt takedown. Personally, I’m not a fan, too many points for a takedown. However, I do agree there is a disparity in the point differential between takedown/escape/reversal.

I propose a “free-release”. If you get a takedown there is immediately a 5 count. Within the 5 seconds you can cut the man for no escape point. If you stay past 5 and he gets out escape point awarded. If a wrestler is given choice and takes down any escape is awarded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anything where you have to explain, this is the rule, except when.... is not good for the sport imo. I like the way it is now. If you don't like that escapes give up 1 then ride. Your advocating for more one dimensional wrestlers... if your going to do that we might as well just switch to freestyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Coach_J said:

One way to tweak this is a 3-point first takedown.  You'd see guys getting after that first one pretty hard.  All takedowns after are the standard 2.

Or guys would be more defensive and afraid to give up the first td. Guys are so good at reattacks these days I don’t think added points for scoring will add to action because they are equally concerned of getting scored on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to see a 2 point takedown for the wrestler who shoots and 1 point for a countr takedown. A counter take down and escape would be a wash, reward shooting 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to see a 2 point takedown for the wrestler who shoots and 1 point for a countr takedown. A counter take down and escape would be a wash, reward shooting 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We all want to see more aggressive wrestling. I don't mind if there are no points if there are legit attempts made by both wrestlers, but 3 pt takedowns seems pretty decent, especially if tempered like CoachJ's proposal. But I'm content with how we score it now for the most part. Heck, I'm still getting used to 4 pt nearfalls :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GLS45 said:

I would like to see a 2 point takedown for the wrestler who shoots and 1 point for a countr takedown. A counter take down and escape would be a wash, reward shooting 

I thought this too but too much judgement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

We all want to see more aggressive wrestling. I don't mind if there are no points if there are legit attempts made by both wrestlers, but 3 pt takedowns seems pretty decent, especially if tempered like CoachJ's proposal. But I'm content with how we score it now for the most part. Heck, I'm still getting used to 4 pt nearfalls :D

4pt nearfall, for me the jury is still out on this one. Can’t decide if I like it or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, russelscout said:

Anything where you have to explain, this is the rule, except when.... is not good for the sport imo. I like the way it is now. If you don't like that escapes give up 1 then ride. Your advocating for more one dimensional wrestlers... if your going to do that we might as well just switch to freestyle.

Exactly! keep it simple for fans if we ever want to grow. 3 point take down and a step out point, with a 10 point tech. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, russelscout said:

Anything where you have to explain, this is the rule, except when.... is not good for the sport imo. I like the way it is now. If you don't like that escapes give up 1 then ride. Your advocating for more one dimensional wrestlers... if your going to do that we might as well just switch to freestyle.

With the take ‘em down let ‘em up we’re already to the one dimensional style. 

Also, there are already ‘except when’ rules which are helpful. Top stalling with leg in on mat vs standing.

But I do understand the point of it being closer to Freestyle. I just don’t like the idea of not ‘earning’ your own points.

Edited by D3UC157
Add info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, D3UC157 said:

With the take ‘em down let ‘em up we’re already to the one dimensional style. 

Also, there are already ‘except when’ rules which are helpful. Top stalling with leg in on mat vs standing.

But I do understand the point of it being closer to Freestyle. I just don’t like the idea of not ‘earning’ your own points.

Then change your strategy from catch and release to turning from the top position. The problem isn't in the scoring system, the problem is the flaw in the catch and release strategy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn’t that mean the empahsis becomes only on top wrestling? Which would mean back points are out of proportion in that it’s a bigger advantage than takedowns? Riding time further adds emphasis to top.

 

I guess this makes me realize the true problem is balancing out all positions? Not incentivizing one over the others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, D3UC157 said:

Doesn’t that mean the empahsis becomes only on top wrestling? Which would mean back points are out of proportion in that it’s a bigger advantage than takedowns? Riding time further adds emphasis to top.

 

I guess this makes me realize the true problem is balancing out all positions? Not incentivizing one over the others.

The flaw in top wrestling only is 2 fold.

1. You need to get to the top position

2. It is arguable more difficult to turn someone from the top position than to score a takedown. 

We see very few guys like Ethan Lizak and Spencer Lee who are known for their dominance from the top position, but see many guys who are catch and release specialists. The imbalance that you speak of where top wrestlers are overtly incentivized doesn't exist.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, D3UC157 said:

I know many people are in favor of the 3 pt takedown. Personally, I’m not a fan, too many points for a takedown. However, I do agree there is a disparity in the point differential between takedown/escape/reversal.

I propose a “free-release”. If you get a takedown there is immediately a 5 count. Within the 5 seconds you can cut the man for no escape point. If you stay past 5 and he gets out escape point awarded. If a wrestler is given choice and takes down any escape is awarded.

Imagine if this happens, then we’ll have to hear “threeeeeeeee” from the audience as opposed to “twoooooooooooooo.”  ;-)

I agree something needs to be done. Either do away with the escape point all together or give 3 points for the takedown and up the MD and TF criteria.

Edited by Marcus Cisero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the "offensive" takedown being 2 and the "defensive" takedown being 1, the UWW tried this and it was a disaster.  With all the insane scrambles guys get into, good luck deterninig if the take down is offensive or a counter, particularly with so many reshot experts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Coach_J said:

One way to tweak this is a 3-point first takedown.  You'd see guys getting after that first one pretty hard.  All takedowns after are the standard 2.

This seems to be the best solution to me, as it incentivizes both guys to work for that 3 point first takedown, and the guy who doesn’t get it knows he needs to get two to make up for it. Seems to me like it would encourage action throughout the bout as opposed to only opening up in the third period after both guys trade escapes 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GLS45 said:

I would like to see a 2 point takedown for the wrestler who shoots and 1 point for a countr takedown. A counter take down and escape would be a wash, reward shooting 

..... you must somehow be convinced that officials are really smart - knot ......!!!!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the ultimate goal in wrestling is to secure a pin, incentives should be top heavy (pun intended) toward turns.  Takedowns are simply a means to that end.  I submit that that first TD be worth 2 and each subsequent TD worth 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, spladle said:

Or it could have an opposite effect and have a complete shutdown for fear of giving up the first takedown.  

More cautious than we already see???  More than the amplitude of 2-1, 3-2 snoozefests we currently endure?  Doubt it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, GLS45 said:

I would like to see a 2 point takedown for the wrestler who shoots and 1 point for a countr takedown. A counter take down and escape would be a wash, reward shooting 

You can tell people don’t actually watch high level wrestling anymore when they suggest dumb **** like this. 

 

Everyone complains about the subjectivity of freestyle but holy cow this would be next level subjectivity. What about when someone is snapped into the legs? Reshots? How do you define when a counter is over and a new sequence begins? A guy goes for a chest lock but is inside tripped? How would you score Joseph/Marinelli match 1? This is dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. 

 

Edit: Seriously, the new edge of the mat rule explains exactly what is action and what isn’t but refs are still too chicken**** to call stalling per the rule book but you think they are going to get this right? I am blown away.

Edited by wrestlingphish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×