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fadzaev2

Toughest weight bracket, all-time at the NCAA's

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2 hours ago, fadzaev2 said:

If I understand you correctly, you are counting the bracket in question on the high side, for example 2009 125....2009 counts as 8 pts. for first place etc.  I may be in a hurry, important meeting to go to today, but I get different totals for 2009/125 and 2008/149....could be me, but I got 125.5 pts. for 08/149, and 111.5 for 2009/125.  Don't have time right now to double check.  I did count Jake Patacsil even though he wasn't multiple???, but why not count him.....that only added 2 pts on to 149.  He was the only non-multiple anyway I think.

i counted 2009 at full, and everything BEFORE 2009 full. everything after counts as half.

now i may have missed an AA here or there... but each bracket it broken down.

I don't count anyone who was not an multiple AA.

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3 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i counted 2009 at full, and everything BEFORE 2009 full. everything after counts as half.

now i may have missed an AA here or there... but each bracket it broken down.

I don't count anyone who was not an multiple AA.

That's what I did, and that's what I got......Patacsil only placed once, although I don't know why you wouldn't count him???  Without his 2 points, 2008/149 still has 123.5.  How are you figuring out all these weight brackets so fast without taking tons of time??????

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1 minute ago, fadzaev2 said:

That's what I did, and that's what I got......Patacsil only placed once, although I don't know why you wouldn't count him???  Without his 2 points, 2008/149 still has 123.5.  How are you figuring out all these weight brackets so fast without taking tons of time??????

it did take tons of time. i started workign on the brackets when the question of 2008 149 came out in this thread.

and posted last night.

 

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15 hours ago, GockeS said:

1. 2009 125

Nickerson 2, 3, 1, 4       23.5

Donahoe  1,3,       21

Precin  7, 3,  3    11

Robles  4, 7, 1   10

Escobedo  4,1, 5 , 3   20

Sanders 6, 5,5,3  10

Sentes  7, 4   4.5

Bedelyon 8, 6   2.5

102.5

all 8 were multiple all americans

only 4 champs

5 finalist finishes

however, there were 3 4x AA's

here is how it works

nickerson went 2,3 ,1, 4

the bold underlined is the year of the bracket

so to that point he gets full points for 2nd , 3rd, and 1st.  so 7, 6, 8 = 21

then the next year he took 4th and gets half of those points so 2.5

total for THIS bracket is 23.5

 

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1 hour ago, russelscout said:

Its opinion. Jenkins his soph. was solid IMO. Came out and took down Metcalf twice in the finals but couldn't keep the pace. 

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion based on the evidence is all I was saying, but I respect your opinion.

At this point we're splitting hairs, but I just feel like Suriano is better due to being a legitimate NCAA threat all 3 years of his career thus far. I cant say I ever felt Jenkins was a legit threat until his senior year.

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9 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

At this point we're splitting hairs, but I just feel like Suriano is better due to being a legitimate NCAA threat all 3 years of his career thus far. I cant say I ever felt Jenkins was a legit threat until his senior year.

Not overly fair considering Jenkins wrestled undersized at 157 as a TF and then was injured with still only 1 loss going into NCAA’s as a Junior. Also, being in Metcalf’s weight Class didn’t help. But, he did have a win over Caldwell. 

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13 hours ago, GockeS said:

and trump is president. i mean there are idiots everywhere.

is that supposed to impress me that she is in congress? 

If you're dumb enough to bring in politics on a college wrestling board, you're not fit to question other people's intelligence.

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2 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Not overly fair considering Jenkins wrestled undersized at 157 as a TF and then was injured with still only 1 loss going into NCAA’s as a Junior. Also, being in Metcalf’s weight Class didn’t help. But, he did have a win over Caldwell. 

We are talking about Jenkins in his sophomore season right?  That's when he was runner up to Metcalf.  At this point he had 18 career losses and a DNP/2nd at nationals compared to Suriano who in 2 seasons had 4 career losses and a DNC/2nd.  I just can't get behind someone thinking Jenkins was better at that point.  

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3 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

At this point we're splitting hairs, but I just feel like Suriano is better due to being a legitimate NCAA threat all 3 years of his career thus far. I cant say I ever felt Jenkins was a legit threat until his senior year.

He made it to the finals. He wasn't a threat?

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37 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

We are talking about Jenkins in his sophomore season right?  That's when he was runner up to Metcalf.  At this point he had 18 career losses and a DNP/2nd at nationals compared to Suriano who in 2 seasons had 4 career losses and a DNC/2nd.  I just can't get behind someone thinking Jenkins was better at that point.  

I wasn’t saying Jenkins was better than Suriano, but he definitely was comparable. 

Also, using his true freshman season up at 157 is a weak argument.....

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10 hours ago, russelscout said:

He made it to the finals. He wasn't a threat?

When he made the finals against Metcalf and to be quite honest during his junior year as well, I honestly had no doubt in my mind that Metcalf would dominate him. I feel like they could wrestle that match 100x over and over again and Metcalf would have won all 100x.

To me the gap between Metcalf and Jenkins was huge.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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5 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

When he made the finals against Metcalf and to be quite honest during his junior year as well, I honestly had no doubt in my mind that Metcalf would dominate him. I feel like they could wrestle that match 100x over and over again and Metcalf would have won all 100x.

To me the gap between Metcalf and Jenkins was huge.

Metcalf was inches away from losing in the quarters to Palmer. If he lost Jenkins would have certainly had a chance against Burroughs or Palmer. You are right though, he was a bad matchup with Metcalf. Depends on your definition of contender.

Edited by russelscout

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On 4/6/2019 at 7:53 PM, GockeS said:

2. 2008 149 

Metcalf 1,2,1    15.5   this suffers b/c it was metcalf's first year

Jenkins 2,1    11

Burroughs  3,1,1   14   also suffers b/c JB's first year, tho i think you would agree he wasn't nearly the wrestle he was his last 2 yrs

J churella 8,2, 4    13

Caldwell 5, 1  8

OConnor  5,6 ,1  11

Schlatter 1,3, 7    16    it gains some from schlatter, im not sure he was as good... injury...

Palmer 4,8,4,2   12    

100.5

all 8 multiple X AA's

8 champs

12 finalist finishes

only 1 4x AA and he took 8th.

 

 

Now I see how you did this, but man, you left out 3 other good ones who were in the bracket, and one of them had placed high 2 times prior to 2008....the 3 are Jake Patacsil 5th in '09, Adam Hall, 3rd/2010 and 5th in 2011 (both times at 157), and don't forget Ryan Lang 4th and 2nd both prior to 2008 to give even more credibility to the weight and how tough it was and you aren't counting him.  You idea is great but?????  Plus how about guys like Burroughs who moved up in weight and won it at 157 and 165 and was undefeated both years.  O'Connor won it at 157, Adam Hall's both place finishes were at 157.  More food for thought.

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21 minutes ago, fadzaev2 said:

Now I see how you did this, but man, you left out 3 other good ones who were in the bracket, and one of them had placed high 2 times prior to 2008....the 3 are Jake Patacsil 5th in '09, Adam Hall, 3rd/2010 and 5th in 2011 (both times at 157), and don't forget Ryan Lang 4th and 2nd both prior to 2008 to give even more credibility to the weight and how tough it was and you aren't counting him.  You idea is great but?????  Plus how about guys like Burroughs who moved up in weight and won it at 157 and 165 and was undefeated both years.  O'Connor won it at 157, Adam Hall's both place finishes were at 157.  More food for thought.

Also Bryce Saddoris was in this bracket. He went DNP('08)- 6-DNP-7

Interesting that Burroughs next year he won a bracket that had former champs in Jordan Leen, Gregor Gillespie and others in including Poeta and Jason Welch along with the ones you stated.

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54 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Also Bryce Saddoris was in this bracket. He went DNP('08)- 6-DNP-7

Interesting that Burroughs next year he won a bracket that had former champs in Jordan Leen, Gregor Gillespie and others in including Poeta and Jason Welch along with the ones you stated.

i may have to look at that bracket.. i forgot about that year

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1 hour ago, fadzaev2 said:

Now I see how you did this, but man, you left out 3 other good ones who were in the bracket, and one of them had placed high 2 times prior to 2008....the 3 are Jake Patacsil 5th in '09, Adam Hall, 3rd/2010 and 5th in 2011 (both times at 157), and don't forget Ryan Lang 4th and 2nd both prior to 2008 to give even more credibility to the weight and how tough it was and you aren't counting him.  You idea is great but?????  Plus how about guys like Burroughs who moved up in weight and won it at 157 and 165 and was undefeated both years.  O'Connor won it at 157, Adam Hall's both place finishes were at 157.  More food for thought.

i agree, there are many flaws. i didn't feel i had the time to go thru all the guys in the bracket. I just had a list of every all american.

in the future I might go back and look at guys who became multiple time AA later.

that said, i feel those guys might not have been as tough in the bracket of discussion as they were in their career later.

i mean EACH bracket is going to have guys who weren't AA and were tough and then did well later.

so it seems a bit like a wash to me.

btw, who had placed 2 times prior to 2008? THAT would be a guy to count on in making the current bracket tougher

 

Edited by GockeS

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3 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i may have to look at that bracket.. i forgot about that year

I'm actually surprised it hasn't come up yet here. It is not the toughest ever IMO, but gets brought up in these discussions every year because of the talent at the top of the bracket. 

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1 minute ago, GockeS said:

i agree, there are many flaws. i didn't feel i had the time to go thru all the guys in the bracket. I just had a list of every all american.

in the future I might go back and look at guys who became multiple time AA later.

that said, i feel those guys might not have been as tough in the bracket of discussion as they were in their career later.

i mean EACH bracket is going to have guys who weren't AA and were tough and then did well later.

so it seems a bit like a wash to me.

 

Yeah, but the best deepest brackets are going to have more of those guys. It seems like guys outside of the top 8 should be relevant to the strength of the entire bracket.

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many times when you have several studs... other guys clear out. and so overall points go down.

that may have been what i was thinking. but i am definitely going to look at that bracket when i get home this evening.

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Just now, russelscout said:

Yeah, but the best deepest brackets are going to have more of those guys. It seems like guys outside of the top 8 should be relevant to the strength of the entire bracket.

i agree. maybe i will take the 11 i ranked and break them down a bit further.

like i said, this is a starting point.  i dont think any bracket that isn't within 10 points after scoring AA's ... ie in the 80-89 point range is going to take over any of those with 90-100 points after we add in non AA's.

say we give any multiple AA later his half points 1st =4 etc... there are going to be guys in every bracket that add... but some really tough ones may move up a notch or two.

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1 hour ago, GockeS said:

 

btw, who had placed 2 times prior to 2008? THAT would be a guy to count on in making the current bracket tougher

 

Ryan Lang (NW) had finished RD12 ("05), 4th ('06), and 2nd(''07),  albeit all at a lower weight (141), but also had this legendary barnburner with Caldwell in the Quarters the year prior.

 

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39 minutes ago, gromit said:

Ryan Lang (NW) had finished RD12 ("05), 4th ('06), and 2nd(''07),  albeit all at a lower weight (141), but also had this legendary barnburner with Caldwell in the Quarters the year prior.

 

wow!

i am a little excited to go back and look at some of those brackets now!

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