Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ConnorsDad

Cael said "Wrestling needs more scholarships"

Recommended Posts

In the press conference at the NCAA's, Cael said wrestling needs more scholarships and he cited the fact that the NCAA's were sold out, dual attendance is up and the sport is becoming more popular. I could see where having more scholarships would hurt the teams that are not fully funded even more. Although I thought it was strange that Division 1 and Division 2 had roughly the same number, evidently that's pretty much the norm. Does wrestling need more scholarships?

http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

Edited by ConnorsDad
Spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did point out somewhere, that in Facebook, I keep getting advertisement for Tickets for the Frozen Four. But mainstream press will give you the impression College Hockey is bigger than college wrestling. LMAO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 weight classes, 9.9 scholarships available.

If it were basketball it would be 5 starters and 4.8 scholarships available. Football would be 11 to a side, 10 scholarships available.

You can't even get a full team of wrestlers with the scholarships if you gave full tickets to those you expect to start. Should be at least two scholarships per weight class for wrestling. 10 for Basketball, 25 for football - to take in offense, defense kicker, punter and a backup.

As it is now football gets almost four full teams, offense and defense. Way out of line compared to other sports.

Wrestling is getting short changed here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However wrestling brings in zero revenue so you can't compare it or any other sport with football. Football and at some schools, basketball, fund the other programs. Baseball has very few scholarships as well and probably needs more than wrestling (8 every day starters, a starting rotation and bullpen). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also thought the point that Cael brought up was very interesting.  Who sets the number of scholarships??? NCAA ticket prices went up and I'm pretty sure ticket sales have increased as well. NCAAs are 3 days long with sessions too. You cant tell me wrestling isnt making money.  Does anyone know if it's the NCAA that sets it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

10 weight classes, 9.9 scholarships available.

If it were basketball it would be 5 starters and 4.8 scholarships available. Football would be 11 to a side, 10 scholarships available.

You can't even get a full team of wrestlers with the scholarships if you gave full tickets to those you expect to start. Should be at least two scholarships per weight class for wrestling. 10 for Basketball, 25 for football - to take in offense, defense kicker, punter and a backup.

As it is now football gets almost four full teams, offense and defense. Way out of line compared to other sports.

Wrestling is getting short changed here.

You are missing a bit here with Football. 11 starters on offense and 11 starters on defense. Plus kicker, punter and long snapper. So roughly 25 “starters”. 

Basketball starters are different than wresting starters. The first three guys off the bench get significant playing time. Even in the national tournament. In wresting non-starters get zero playing time in the national tournament. So a more fair comparison would be like 8 basketball players, could be considered “starters”. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Regulator said:

You are missing a bit here with Football. 11 starters on offense and 11 starters on defense. Plus kicker, punter and long snapper. So roughly 25 “starters”. 

Basketball starters are different than wresting starters. The first three guys off the bench get significant playing time. Even in the national tournament. In wresting non-starters get zero playing time in the national tournament. So a more fair comparison would be like 8 basketball players, could be considered “starters”. 

The same with football. Significant backups get playing time not to mention the propensity for injury. Maybe 50 or so for football and 15 for wrestling. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More scholarships would take the sport from roughly 75 teams, down to about 30 or so...pretty quickly.   Worst idea ever.  The rich will get richer, and those struggling to stay marginally competitive would have even more justification to shut down their programs.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer the OP question - I would say yes. Ten weight classes getting 9.9 is definitely askew. Above, others have mentioned football and basketball as examples of why wrestling should get more scholarships. The better way to do it is to create a list of sports, individuals on the roster, the number of positions/players per game, and then list the number of scholarships the sport receives. (The one ancillary piece - as others have pointed out - is the "6th-man" situation. Football, volleyball, and basketball all have guys who sub in on a regular basis; as does hockey. I am unsure of baseball, softball, and track, let alone the fringe sports such as LAX, field hockey, and gymnastics.) By doing this one would get a better player-to-scholarship ratio, strengthening (or weakening) wrestling's case.

One thing I know for sure is the solution cannot come from reducing the number of scholarships for other squads. No, a better way would be to make wrestling viable for each program. This can be done a myriad of ways but one of the best ways is to make a connection with the local high school, JH, and youth wrestling scenes. As a staff, be out-and-about (being diligent as to not violate any recruiting rules), hold clinics, host a tournament, etc. When the people in the sport around a campus care, the administrators will (should) notice. (And if they don't, there is most likely an agenda involved; ex.: Cleveland State U, Eastern Michigan U...)

 

One final piece for wrestling is what seems to be an outdated red-shirting policy. This needs addressed and done so immediately. I still maintain that having wrestlers compete for 5 years, but in only 4 conference (and thus 4 NCAA) tournaments is the best solution. This allows wrestlers who are on redshirt to still compete in duals and tournaments for the team as opposed to forcing them to flounder about on the "open" scene.

Edited by RealAmericanHero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, tightwaist said:

More scholarships would take the sport from roughly 75 teams, down to about 30 or so...pretty quickly.   Worst idea ever.  The rich will get richer, and those struggling to stay marginally competitive would have even more justification to shut down their programs.   

Is the premise of this line of thinking that many (most) schools could not afford to provide more scholarship money and thus would be forced to cut the program?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, RealAmericanHero said:

Is the premise of this line of thinking that many (most) schools could not afford to provide more scholarship money and thus would be forced to cut the program?

Correct.  Do you think Drexel, Rider, Campbell, VMI, George Mason, Binghamton, Citadel, Edinboro, Clarion, Buffalo and many others want to compete in an arms race with the Big 10, Big 12 and ACC?  It would be the dumbest thing the sport could do.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, RealAmericanHero said:

Is the premise of this line of thinking that many (most) schools could not afford to provide more scholarship money and thus would be forced to cut the program?

 Is it most schools can afford it?  Or most (all) schools just choose to place a large amount of their money into other areas.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, westfan said:

However wrestling brings in zero revenue so you can't compare it or any other sport with football. Football and at some schools, basketball, fund the other programs. Baseball has very few scholarships as well and probably needs more than wrestling (8 every day starters, a starting rotation and bullpen). 

 

There are few schools that actually take in more dollars than Football costs. Without TV money even those would be money losers.

I bet there are no limits on Scholarships offered for Chemistry, Physics, the Arts and other programs in College. NCAA limits are a control mechanism, nothing more. The numbers artificial and not based on reality.

Make the numbers fit the sport so starters and backups get covered. Football with 85 or so is crazy. Wrestling with not enough to even cover a team is crazy. Have the numbers fit the sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

10 weight classes, 9.9 scholarships available.

If it were basketball it would be 5 starters and 4.8 scholarships available. 

5 is half of 10 but 4.8 ain’t half of 9.9. 

Yes wrestling gets shortchanged but in current landscape I agree with others that we’d lose programs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn’t it funny that a kid can get money to study on the basis of his athletic abilities?  And at many schools they’ll admit the kid even if his academic record wouldn’t otherwise get him admitted?  

Seems kind of silly when you think about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Katie said:

Isn’t it funny that a kid can get money to study on the basis of his athletic abilities?  And at many schools they’ll admit the kid even if his academic record wouldn’t otherwise get him admitted?  

Seems kind of silly when you think about it.

Yup. Has nothing to do with the school's "mission" to teach whatsoever. What I think is goofiest is that TONS of stupid kids get into college and take joke majors. Can't be doing any credit to the school's academic reputation.  Plus sometimes the schools cheat to allow even dumber kids in and cheat to keep them eligible. UNC comes to mind immediately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

10 weight classes, 9.9 scholarships available.

If it were basketball it would be 5 starters and 4.8 scholarships available. Football would be 11 to a side, 10 scholarships available.

You can't even get a full team of wrestlers with the scholarships if you gave full tickets to those you expect to start. Should be at least two scholarships per weight class for wrestling. 10 for Basketball, 25 for football - to take in offense, defense kicker, punter and a backup.

As it is now football gets almost four full teams, offense and defense. Way out of line compared to other sports.

Wrestling is getting short changed here.

Soccer has 11 players and gets 9.9 scholarships.

Volleyball gets 4.5 scholarships with 7 players (counting Libero) playing.  

Wrestling's 9.9 for 10 weights is reasonable.

It is asinine to claim that Penn State needs more scholarships.  The NCAA tournament selling out does nothing for the any of the school's bottom lines.  The "profits" are returned to all NCAA member schools, including those that don't sponsor wrestling.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RealAmericanHero said:

Is the premise of this line of thinking that many (most) schools could not afford to provide more scholarship money and thus would be forced to cut the program?

No, that was not my premise. I was just wondering what everybody thought. Not having been involved in college wrestling I have no idea and I was just looking for people's opinion. After reading tightwaist's post the more I think about it the more I think he is right. The more scholarships it would make the bigger programs even tougher to compete with and more small programs that are not fully funded would simply drop by the wayside. I don't know who those programmes are so maybe somebody here could tell us if they know for sure of division 1 programs that are not fully funded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MadMardigain said:

 Is it most schools can afford it?  Or most (all) schools just choose to place a large amount of their money into other areas.   

both

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WillieBoy said:

There are few schools that actually take in more dollars than Football costs. Without TV money even those would be money losers.

I bet there are no limits on Scholarships offered for Chemistry, Physics, the Arts and other programs in College. NCAA limits are a control mechanism, nothing more. The numbers artificial and not based on reality.

Make the numbers fit the sport so starters and backups get covered. Football with 85 or so is crazy. Wrestling with not enough to even cover a team is crazy. Have the numbers fit the sport.

where is the money going to come from? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Yup. Has nothing to do with the school's "mission" to teach whatsoever. What I think is goofiest is that TONS of stupid kids get into college and take joke majors. Can't be doing any credit to the school's academic reputation.  Plus sometimes the schools cheat to allow even dumber kids in and cheat to keep them eligible. UNC comes to mind immediately.

Why UNC? I'm not disagreeing I just don't know. I guess if I had thought about it a little longer all those great basketball players were probably not good enough students to get in. Is that what you're saying?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Yup. Has nothing to do with the school's "mission" to teach whatsoever. What I think is goofiest is that TONS of stupid kids get into college and take joke majors. Can't be doing any credit to the school's academic reputation.  Plus sometimes the schools cheat to allow even dumber kids in and cheat to keep them eligible. UNC comes to mind immediately.

and they let celebs into school and on teams for millions!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×