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NCAA Session 1 Thread

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3 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

You often show your lack of wresting knowledge, but your reactions here show it GLARINGLY. Parris is FLEEING because if he engages or defends he gets thrown on his head from ALL of those positions. Stoll isn’t PUSHING him anything like Sumo or even an offensive lineman in football. He is jacking him up in WRESTLING locks and Parris is running backwards. 

This is true. Parris has options there. They just all likely end up with him on his back or giving up two or backing  out. He takes the latter and that's his fault that he doesn't or isn't able to do anything else. 

Edited by russelscout

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1 minute ago, boconnell said:

I don't understand everyone mad at Stoll.  I've seen Stoll matches where all he did was push, but Parris bailed at the slightest contact and never made effort to even circle in.

Exactly.  People are just looking for reasons to hate on Stoll.  They're acting like this was him pushing Derek White out over and over to get restarts.  Parris was terrified in everything upperbody, likely because he's so relatively inexperienced.  That's why I changed my pick to Stoll making quarters and eventually the podium.  Stoll got put into the best possible spot for him thanks to the redraw.

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2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Unless Parris is the weakest human on the planet, nobody can push anybody that quickly backwards.

Maybe he is weak, I don't know. But he isn't fleeing like MSU thinks. He's trying to circle, Stoll is trying to push. Stoll is clearly able to push in that position. Hwt is the most glaring of weights with pushing guys OOB. This match is text book example.

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Two guys go to wrestle each other and one runs straight backwards on contact while the other plods forward and wins the handfighting.  

Everyone gets mad at the guy who moved forward?  Because he's big?  Almost half of Stoll's opponents this year have solved this impossible puzzle without backpedalling out of bounds when the big mean guy got close to them. 

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

Even if you exclude the stall calls, Stoll outwrestled Parris in neutral and on the mat.  Parris is a little undercooked at this point, probably would have been better off redshirting.

Absolutely agree. He personally needed the development year, but Mich had nothing at the weight without him. 

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Just now, TBar1977 said:

Maybe he is weak, I don't know. But he isn't fleeing like MSU thinks. He's trying to circle, Stoll is trying to push. Stoll is clearly able to push in that position. Hwt is the most glaring of weights with pushing guys OOB. This match is text book example.

If it was as simple as you were claiming, Stoll would be undefeated.  Jakob Aven figured it out.

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Stoll was not out wrestling him. He was using his weight to back him up to the edge, THEN jack him up, and force him out thus getting the stall point he didn't want to wrestle him he wanted to push Parris to the edge and force stall calls. I don't blame stoll hes playing to the rules, no matter how bad of a rule. There was plenty of times Parris tried to circle out, but was not effective. The loss is on Parris for not adjusting, but that is an extremely ugly match, just not sure if moreso for Stoll, Parris, or the ref.

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1 hour ago, boconnell said:

They seeded all 33 this year and every pigtail was 32 vs 33.  They evaluated everything and made him the 33rd seed.  They even seeded the at large WV guy who finished behind him at Big 12s #29.  So he at least has the resume to be 29 if you want to pretend the 174 matches don't exist.  The #33 seed was a message against dropping weights.

Just like Geer has a top 10 resume in the weight class and was put #26.  

This is incorrect. Seeds 29-33 were based on a random draw of the bottom 5 guys. The 29-33 seeds were based on that draw

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6 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

If it was as simple as you were claiming, Stoll would be undefeated.  Jakob Aven figured it out.

Parris doesn't have the horsepower as you stated earlier. I just don't like Stoll's style and have complained about it for 4 years. I'll be happy when he's done. His wrestling is incredibly limited and he wins on sheer size. 

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Just now, GDav5 said:

Stoll was not out wrestling him. He was using his weight to back him up to the edge, THEN jack him up, and force him out thus getting the stall point he didn't want to wrestle him he wanted to push Parris to the edge and force stall calls. I don't blame stoll hes playing to the rules, no matter how bad of a rule. There was plenty of times Parris tried to circle out, but was not effective. The loss is on Parris for not adjusting, but that is an extremely ugly match, just not sure if moreso for Stoll, Parris, or the ref.

Didn't they have the same amount of TDs and didn't have Stoll have riding time too?

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2 minutes ago, GDav5 said:

Stoll was not out wrestling him. He was using his weight to back him up to the edge, THEN jack him up, and force him out thus getting the stall point he didn't want to wrestle him he wanted to push Parris to the edge and force stall calls. I don't blame stoll hes playing to the rules, no matter how bad of a rule. There was plenty of times Parris tried to circle out, but was not effective. The loss is on Parris for not adjusting, but that is an extremely ugly match, just not sure if moreso for Stoll, Parris, or the ref.

Stoll got the same number of TDs and was far closer to more TDs than Parris ever was, plus Stoll rode the hell out of him and escaped with ease, all while dominating ties and moving Parris wherever he wanted him. I'm not sure what you would call that other than outwrestling.

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1 minute ago, HokieHWT said:

Stoll looked great! That’s how you do it! I love old school bullish heavyweight wrestling, it’s always exciting!

I like the new school Synder/Cassar/Steveson speed & technique Hwts as opposed to the Stoll/Coon lean-in Hwt style. I still wish Parris threw Stoll, he was just asking for it, haha.

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5 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Parris doesn't have the horsepower as you stated earlier. I just don't like Stoll's style and have complained about it for 4 years. I'll be happy when he's done. His wrestling is incredibly limited and he wins on sheer size. 

Your dislike for his style is not the same thing as Stoll stalling.  His style didn't used to be limited, it was just greco-based, and thus less aesthetically pleasing to most Americans.  When people pushed back into Stoll, they got thrown to their back often.  He's more limited now, thanks to the gunshot, but it's not how he was previously.

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1 minute ago, pamela said:

I like the new school Synder/Cassar/Steveson speed & technique Hwts as opposed to the Stoll/Coon lean-in Hwt style. I still wish Parris threw Stoll, he was just asking for it, haha.

Stoll is an age-level greco world medalist.  That's why people don't try, lol.

Also, I don't think that's a fair assessment of Coon.  Coon was athletic as hell and moved like crazy.

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institute a step out rule and it will force guys to learn how to wrestle instead of just run out of bounds...

HWY free/greco matches do not look like that match...

and that poor ref had no idea what the hell to call because the awful rule makes it impossible to call with any consistency at all...

 

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1 hour ago, Red95 said:

If you want a decent seed you actually have to wrestle the weight during the season. And get better than 5th at your conference tournament.

Agreed. As I've mentioned other times, you can't assume that an elite wrestler who misses most of the year because of injury or is dropping down a weight for the first time is going to be his usual dominant self. Everybody at this level is good. To have a guy who's wrestled very few matches at 174 all of a sudden drop down a weight class for the conference tournament and then finish 5th means you are not getting elite Joe Smith & he doesn't warrant anything but a 33rd seed. That's it. It works the same if he'd been hurt all year. He might do well but he hasn't earned it. What drives me insane with college football is talking heads, when the college playoff is looming, ask everybody "who's the best team?" for the last playoff spot.. Well if Alabama loses 5 games because 20 guys are ineligible, then loses 2 more before they get back to full speed and then crush 3 teams in a row, we know they're probably one of the four best but they're not deserving of being in the playoffs. If you put Joe Smith as one of the top eight seeds then you might as well not even wrestle the season and go on past accomplishments. It does a disservice to the guys who have been there all year. I know, you are going to say what if his low seed has him wrestling somebody good early on. Well there is that chance. He's getting the seed he's deserving of and if he happens to beat the guy then so be it.

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1 minute ago, ConnorsDad said:

Agreed. As I've mentioned other times, you can't assume that an elite wrestler who misses most of the year because of injury or is dropping down a weight for the first time is going to be his usual dominant self. Everybody at this level is good. To have a guy who's wrestled very few matches at 174 all of a sudden drop down a weight class for the conference tournament and then finish 5th means you are not getting elite Joe Smith & he doesn't warrant anything but a 33rd seed. That's it. It works the same if he'd been hurt all year. He might do well but he hasn't earned it. What drives me insane with college football is talking heads, when the college playoff is looming, ask everybody "who's the best team?" for the last playoff spot.. Well if Alabama loses 5 games because 20 guys are ineligible, then loses 2 more before they get back to full speed and then crush 3 teams in a row, we know they're probably one of the four best but they're not deserving of being in the playoffs. If you put Joe Smith as one of the top eight seeds then you might as well not even wrestle the season and go on past accomplishments. It does a disservice to the guys who have been there all year. I know, you are going to say what if his low seed has him wrestling somebody good early on. Well there is that chance. He's getting the seed he's deserving of and if he happens to beat the guy then so be it.

Then how do you explain Geer at 26?  You can ignore his season at 184 and he has more than enough resume to be in the teens.  It is extremely clear they punished weight dropping beyond the merits.  

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