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Katie

Who gets the Hodge?

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2 hours ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

What's up with the individual scorers tally on the club's site?  They're showing Nolf as the top scorer and Bo tied for 5th.  That can't be right.

https://www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org/content/tournament_team_score.php?id=22&type=individual

2019 NCAA Championships

Points Per Individual
Jason Nolf (Penn State) 26
Zahid Valencia (Arizona State) 25
Spencer Lee (Iowa) 24.5
Anthony Cassar (Penn State) 24
Bo Nickal (Penn State) 23
Nick Suriano (Rutgers) 23

 

The site is not correct. They had a club party last nite and they stopped updating the individual scoring after Zahid won 174lbs. You'll notice that neither Drew Foster or Bo Nickal got their 4 points for winning 1rst place, so Foster would need to go from 17 to 21 and Bo from 23 to 27. It remains incorrect as I type this, but I'm sure they'll update it later today. 

Edited by TBar1977

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2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

 

The site is not correct. They had a club party last nite and they stopped updating the individual scoring after Zahid won 174lbs. You'll notice that neither Drew Foster or Bo Nickal got their 4 points for winning 1rst place, so Foster would need to go from 17 to 21 and Bo from 23 to 27. It remains incorrect as I type this, but I'm sure they'll update it later today. 

It's correct now.

019 NCAA Championships

Points Per Individual
Bo Nickal (Penn State) 27
Jason Nolf (Penn State) 26
Zahid Valencia (Arizona State) 25
Spencer Lee (Iowa) 24.5
Anthony Cassar (Penn State) 24
Nick Suriano (Rutgers) 23
Mekhi Lewis (Virginia Tech) 22
Anthony Ashnault (Rutgers) 21
Drew Foster (Northern Iowa) 21
Yianni Diakomihalis (Cornell) 20

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6 hours ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

What's up with the individual scorers tally on the club's site?  They're showing Nolf as the top scorer and Bo tied for 5th.  That can't be right.

https://www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org/content/tournament_team_score.php?id=22&type=individual

2019 NCAA Championships

Points Per Individual
Jason Nolf (Penn State) 26
Zahid Valencia (Arizona State) 25
Spencer Lee (Iowa) 24.5
Anthony Cassar (Penn State) 24
Bo Nickal (Penn State) 23
Nick Suriano (Rutgers) 23

Trackwestling always keeps a running total, and this is the final statistics:

image.png.269d9e79f55d23616f5f7b3dc586fcb5.png

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The sad thing is, Nolf IS a better wrestler for all 7 minutes. Bo is simply more flashy and is a big move specialist.

Nolf has the largest variety of attacks I have ever seen and it looks like he just makes some of them up as he goes. 

Finally, Hidlay, Berger, Pantaleo, Young and Deakin are vastly superior to Moore, Weigel, Brucki, Hokit and Miklus. 157 was considerably deeper, with more high end talent. 

Without Nolf, Bo should win it hands down. However, their is a Nolf and he is the best DI wrestler this year and truly the last 3 years!

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7 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

The sad thing is, Nolf IS a better wrestler for all 7 minutes. Bo is simply more flashy and is a big move specialist.

Nolf has the largest variety of attacks I have ever seen and it looks like he just makes some of them up as he goes. 

Finally, Hidlay, Berger, Pantaleo, Young and Deakin are vastly superior to Moore, Weigel, Brucki, Hokit and Miklus. 157 was considerably deeper, with more high end talent. 

Without Nolf, Bo should win it hands down. However, their is a Nolf and he is the best DI wrestler this year and truly the last 3 years!

I personally think that Nolf was the best college wrestler this year, followed closely by Bo.

But the Hodge is supposed to be about dominance, and that Hidlay match hurt Nolf in that department.

Edited by Katie

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12 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

It will be Bo. Despite the lackluster final he still outscored every other wrestler in the tournament plus he was likely most dominant during the year.

As much as I want it to be Nolf, Bo has to be the pick. 

The fact that this comment makes sense proves it. Bo had what it seems like we all consider a lackluster final...when he beat the consensus #2 who is undefeated besides losses to Bo 5-1

He also went pin-pin-Major-pin up to the final and we are all still disappointed in his performance. 

If we get mad because he wasn’t even more dominant, it suggests how dominant we expect him to be. He is legendary. 

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15 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

The sad thing is, Nolf IS a better wrestler for all 7 minutes. Bo is simply more flashy and is a big move specialist.

Nolf has the largest variety of attacks I have ever seen and it looks like he just makes some of them up as he goes. 

Finally, Hidlay, Berger, Pantaleo, Young and Deakin are vastly superior to Moore, Weigel, Brucki, Hokit and Miklus. 157 was considerably deeper, with more high end talent. 

Without Nolf, Bo should win it hands down. However, their is a Nolf and he is the best DI wrestler this year and truly the last 3 years!

The hodge has criteria though and Bo wins based on those. Sure, if you asked me who the best wrestler in college was this year and career wise only including current wrestlers, I’d also pick Nolf. 

Nolf never had a bad loss. Bo lost to Nate Jackson. Even Myles Martin, for as good as he is, is a worse loss than iMar. 

If anyone brings up the other Nolf “loss” I’ll fight you

Edited by Housebuye

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

 

If anyone brings up the other Nolf “loss” I’ll fight you

Sorry I really don't know what it was - what was the other lost and what is the context of it (meaning why is it not worth considering as a loss)? Thank you!

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30 minutes ago, RJChicago said:

Sorry I really don't know what it was - what was the other lost and what is the context of it (meaning why is it not worth considering as a loss)? Thank you!

The loss at Rutgers last year when Nolf injured his knee.

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Bo gets it, I was all in for co-hodge, but 3 pins and Nolf lackluster victory against Hidlay (Hidlay had that TD at the end of the second period which could have changed the match, we will never know) changed my mind. Bo should win the Hodge.

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2 hours ago, Axe_Spartan said:

Bo gets it, I was all in for co-hodge, but 3 pins and Nolf lackluster victory against Hidlay (Hidlay had that TD at the end of the second period which could have changed the match, we will never know) changed my mind. Bo should win the Hodge.

You do realize that Nolf won by Fall, TF, TF, close match with Hidlay and then by MD over Berger?  Changing 2 TF's to Falls make the difference?  Especially when thinking about just how thin the 197 weight class was?  I would also argue that Hidlay will prove to be WAAY tougher than even Moore when his career is done.  

Still here is a comparison of their seasons: https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/20303/nolf-jason/profile

https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/20302/nickal-bo/profile

Nolf was 31-0 with 15 Falls, 1 Injury default, 5 TFs, 6 MD's and 4 regular decisions.  Those regular decisions were Berger 10-4, Pantaleo 9-2, Pantaleo 7-1 and Hidlay 3-2.

Nickal was 30-0 with 18 Falls, 3 TFs, 6 MD's and 3 regular decisions.  Those regular decisions were 8-6 over Schultz, and both 10-3 and 5-1 over Moore.

 

Nolf's Big 10 schedule had considerably more talent than Bo's and only slightly lowered his bonus rate, but definitely hurt the FALL count.  Berger took 2nd and Nolf MD'd him 2 out of 3.  Pantaleo took 3rd and Nolf beat him by 7 and 6.  Young took 5th(Nolf never wrestled him), Deakin took 6th and he beat him 19-7.

Nickal really only had Moore whom he beat by FALL, 10-3 and 5-1.  Warner took 7th(never wrestled) and Schultz, who gave him his toughest match 8-6, lost in the R16.

 

To me, Nolf has been the most dominant wrestler for the past 3 years and that should trump how close they are this season, especially when considering the opponents for this season.

No

Edited by MSU158

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Bo was "most dangerous wrestler 4 years in a row". It's true because I heard him say it in the post match interview.

Nolf did not say anything like that. Means he took himself out of the running, right?

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Just now, WillieBoy said:

Bo was "most dangerous wrestler 4 years in a row". It's true because I heard him say it in the post match interview.

Nolf did not say anything like that. Means he took himself out of the running, right?

Nah, Nolf said in the pre-tournament presser that the Hodge award is all he talks about. Haha

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Just read Nomad's article and the career is a criteria for the Hodge.

So in addition to Bo and Nolf's similar individual achievements, what about the fact they were both teammates and huge contributing factors on the dynasty PSU machine?

I have no horse in the race here and not gonna lose any sleep over this, but if there was ever a time for a co, this one has all the dots connected.

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On 3/23/2019 at 10:56 PM, Eagle26 said:

Split it between Nolf and Nickal. After the semis I would had said all Nickal. Then Nolf gets bonus in the finals and Nickal doesn’t even try to pin with a cradle locked up. So they both dropped a little in the Hodge race but still way ahead of anyone else 

I like your attitude!!!  Fadz

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22 hours ago, MSU158 said:

You do realize that Nolf won by Fall, TF, TF, close match with Hidlay and then by MD over Berger?  Changing 2 TF's to Falls make the difference?  Especially when thinking about just how thin the 197 weight class was?  I would also argue that Hidlay will prove to be WAAY tougher than even Moore when his career is done.  

Still here is a comparison of their seasons: https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/20303/nolf-jason/profile

https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/20302/nickal-bo/profile

Nolf was 31-0 with 15 Falls, 1 Injury default, 5 TFs, 6 MD's and 4 regular decisions.  Those regular decisions were Berger 10-4, Pantaleo 9-2, Pantaleo 7-1 and Hidlay 3-2.

Nickal was 30-0 with 18 Falls, 3 TFs, 6 MD's and 3 regular decisions.  Those regular decisions were 8-6 over Schultz, and both 10-3 and 5-1 over Moore.

 

Nolf's Big 10 schedule had considerably more talent than Bo's and only slightly lowered his bonus rate, but definitely hurt the FALL count.  Berger took 2nd and Nolf MD'd him 2 out of 3.  Pantaleo took 3rd and Nolf beat him by 7 and 6.  Young took 5th(Nolf never wrestled him), Deakin took 6th and he beat him 19-7.

Nickal really only had Moore whom he beat by FALL, 10-3 and 5-1.  Warner took 7th(never wrestled) and Schultz, who gave him his toughest match 8-6, lost in the R16.

 

To me, Nolf has been the most dominant wrestler for the past 3 years and that should trump how close they are this season, especially when considering the opponents for this season.

No

Good arguments I have to say. Career is a criteria also right? Seeing the stats, Nolf is slighlty better on the winning percentage but definitely better on the bonus rate, yes, I have to agree that this is closer than I inicitially thought. A co would not be a bad idea after all.

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