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Pittsburgh grades

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I was not impressed with the venue. As soon as we crossed into PA, the trash on the interstate was very noticeable.  As I got close to the arena I tried to throw a water bottle away. When I finally found a trash can it was overflowing from probably 3 days of trash being thrown away. I don't think I have ever scene so much trash. everywhere I looked trash was all around.

I don't understand the issue getting in the arena for the first sessions. They host the Penguins who bring a great crowd as well as hosting numerous concerts. No way do they have this issue every event.

Birds in the arena!!!!!! Seriously, Birds flying all around, I can't believe a wrestler was not pooped on.

The venue was nice, but seemed tightly set up, even outdated. The fact that they continued to post the team scores on the giant score board instead of the match scores was ridiculous. Some of the friendliest ushers I ever encountered. 

I loved the comradery amongst wrestling fans. I as a tOSU fan had a great time chatting it up with Penn St fans during one break. Scalped tickets for session 3 in the Iowa fan section. I had a great time with those fans.

The food and bar scene was nice, and the people and service were outstanding. 

I understand the homeless scene and the fact that they are looking for hand outs, but there was a large contingent that you just could not ignore or avoid.

I give Pittsburgh a C, as a host of the event.

Nashville would be awesome. I have traveled there for a concert and Bridgestone Arena is located at the end of the strip. Plenty of hotels and entertainment in the area. I would also love to see it at Nationwide Arena in Columbus. The Arena District is set up perfect for this event.

 

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2 hours ago, fadzaev2 said:

.  Glad they got the countdown in on attendee's for no. of NCAA's attended.....increments were too great though  .....20-30, 30-40 is too great....... should be 20-25, 25-30, 30-35, etc.  Maybe it was due to time restraints, but I'd eliminate the first year attendees before I took away from those who have been coming for half their life....personally, this may seem like a small thing, but I think it creates a goal/motivating factor for people to want to come back year after year.....just another "small" thing that can help our sport to grow.

In no way, shape or form am I ever going to not recognize first-year attendees. We had three minutes. I got it in there based on the respect I have for our older fans, but you don't get to 35-40 years without first going to one. How about the motivating factor for welcoming people for the first time? Next year, we'll have the opportunity to welcome thousands of first-time attendees. While I have much respect for those who blazed the trail, without first-time attendees, we don't have second-time attendees. If it stays, that's what it's going to be. First-time attendees will keep the sport alive and growing - and that isn't a dig on those who have been coming for years, but the sport also needs to acknowledge the younger ticket buyer, who is entering the demographic for the first time. 

 

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14 hours ago, RichB said:

They sold RC Cola. Only arena etc ever saw that. But because I was in lower, collapsible seats. there was no cp holder so I bought no beer, having spilled some RC.

Yankee Stadium used to have RC Cola in the 90's. I didn't realize it was still sold...

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RichB

We all were on top of the incline trolly, and he pointed out the trail start and 

He did mention the rivers. Usually when two rivers meet, the widest one is the name that carries on down stream. Thus monongehela the widest meets Allegheny, the river they create would be the Monongehela. But I guess the Ohio Indians didn’t get the memo from the Monongehela Indians. 

 

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A logical methodology, as early explorers would probably not know flows, at first, and I see from Google Earth the Mon, at Point Park, does indeed appear broader than the Allegheny, although the Allegheny has twice the flow.

But a view of Cairo Illinois shows The Ohio maybe twice the width of the Mississippi, (Ohio River flows mean 280,000 CFS vs Miss 210,000 CFS.)  So the earliest explorers (Desoto?) were a little confused

Back to wrestling I guess, although college season is still 7+ months away

    

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6 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

In no way, shape or form am I ever going to not recognize first-year attendees. We had three minutes. I got it in there based on the respect I have for our older fans, but you don't get to 35-40 years without first going to one. How about the motivating factor for welcoming people for the first time? Next year, we'll have the opportunity to welcome thousands of first-time attendees. While I have much respect for those who blazed the trail, without first-time attendees, we don't have second-time attendees. If it stays, that's what it's going to be. First-time attendees will keep the sport alive and growing - and that isn't a dig on those who have been coming for years, but the sport also needs to acknowledge the younger ticket buyer, who is entering the demographic for the first time. 

 

Jason.....I respect you for that, and I understand.....I do see your point, and it crossed my mind as well   (I actually didn't remember that part being done before).....keep up the great job you are doing for our sport....Fadz   (also, in the past, it has gone in increments of 5....I guess that was my main point)

Edited by fadzaev2

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3 hours ago, RichB said:

A logical methodology, as early explorers would probably not know flows, at first, and I see from Google Earth the Mon, at Point Park, does indeed appear broader than the Allegheny, although the Allegheny has twice the flow.

But a view of Cairo Illinois shows The Ohio maybe twice the width of the Mississippi, (Ohio River flows mean 280,000 CFS vs Miss 210,000 CFS.)  So the earliest explorers (Desoto?) were a little confused

Back to wrestling I guess, although college season is still 7+ months away

    

Thus the River from Cairo Illinois to New Orleans should be called the Ohio, or if stated logic and protocol was to prevail, the river from Pittsburgh to New Orleans would be called the Monongehela River! Not the Mississippi

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On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:37 AM, Frank_Rizzo said:

My only gripe about the entire tournament is that the PPG Paints Arena had a lot of trouble getting fans in the door before the first session.  The first whistles blew with very few people in their seats.  

Disagree with this statement.  Here's what I posted on the topic earlier...

Another + for the PPG Paints Arena: After the first session, they realized that opening the doors 1-hour prior (making fans stand out in the cold) wouldn’t work & started opening doors 90-minutes prior. Let people on the concourse of the arena and then allowed them to go to their seats one hour prior.

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I give the venue an A. the city an A, I Would go back. This was my 2nd NCAA. My 1st was 2015 in  St. Louis, and I gave it an A also. I've been to several Midlands, Big Ten championships and a few Southern scuffles in Greensboro and Chattanooga.

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Jason.....I respect you for that, and I understand.....I do see your point, and it crossed my mind as well   (I actually didn't remember that part being done before).....keep up the great job you are doing for our sport....Fadz   (also, in the past, it has gone in increments of 5....I guess that was my main point)

We are also the only sport that does this. It was by our request (Bryan and myself) this even gets included. The NCAA is willing to do it, but it’s gotta be quick and in the time allowed during breaks. This is on live TV. In 2003, my second year I went and the first I heard the announcement, it was on tape delay, so there was a lot more time to do this type of thing.

I mean, are we really bickering over how long someone got to stand up amongst a group of 18,000 fans? It’s a nice tradition I’d like to continue, but it’s no deal breaker if it gets cut from time to time - organize chaos happens.

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2 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:


We are also the only sport that does this. It was by our request (Bryan and myself) this even gets included. The NCAA is willing to do it, but it’s gotta be quick and in the time allowed during breaks. This is on live TV. In 2003, my second year I went and the first I heard the announcement, it was on tape delay, so there was a lot more time to do this type of thing.

I mean, are we really bickering over how long someone got to stand up amongst a group of 18,000 fans? It’s a nice tradition I’d like to continue, but it’s no deal breaker if it gets cut from time to time - organize chaos happens.

Got ya Jason.....I'm discussing it with you, because I brought this idea to Sandy Stevens a number of years ago, and consider myself, along with Sandy, two of the originators of this idea...we actually discussed in private messages on Facebook I believe.    Fadzaev2   (41 NCAA's/35 in a row and 26 Big Ten Championships)

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I hate to come off crass in my responses, but we get more wiggle room for stuff like this than any other NCAA D1 sport - a lot of that stuff has been phased out. We do our best to keep it in - and sometimes that can’t happen. We are 3-for-4 ... and it’s been tricky and inconsistently placed, but the alternative is it gets cut. We don’t want that to happen. So if increments go from 5 to 10, that’s what it will take to keep it.

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2 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

I hate to come off crass in my responses, but we get more wiggle room for stuff like this than any other NCAA D1 sport - a lot of that stuff has been phased out. We do our best to keep it in - and sometimes that can’t happen. We are 3-for-4 ... and it’s been tricky and inconsistently placed, but the alternative is it gets cut. We don’t want that to happen. So if increments go from 5 to 10, that’s what it will take to keep it.

I think the vast majority of people defer to your judgment on issues like this.  There are things I hear over the PA once in a while that I think I might do or say differently, but I'm in the peanut gallery and not sitting at the mic having to do all you have you do in real time.  And the bottom line is you do a difficult job -- over many hours on three very long days -- very well, informatively, and with good humor, such that it adds to the experience in the arena.  So, thanks!

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11 hours ago, lu_alum said:

Disagree with this statement.  Here's what I posted on the topic earlier...

Another + for the PPG Paints Arena: After the first session, they realized that opening the doors 1-hour prior (making fans stand out in the cold) wouldn’t work & started opening doors 90-minutes prior. Let people on the concourse of the arena and then allowed them to go to their seats one hour prior.

They adjusted very well, and quickly, to the initial complications. Was also nice to be able to get into the doors and have areas to connect with people around the arena to chat before sessions. Found the seating quite comfortable and the views up top were still quite good. Would not mind coming back to Pittsburgh in the future, but also do really enjoy the city itself 

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22 hours ago, Cruiser94 said:

I was not impressed with the venue. As soon as we crossed into PA, the trash on the interstate was very noticeable.  As I got close to the arena I tried to throw a water bottle away. When I finally found a trash can it was overflowing from probably 3 days of trash being thrown away. I don't think I have ever scene so much trash. everywhere I looked trash was all around.

I don't understand the issue getting in the arena for the first sessions. They host the Penguins who bring a great crowd as well as hosting numerous concerts. No way do they have this issue every event.

Birds in the arena!!!!!! Seriously, Birds flying all around, I can't believe a wrestler was not pooped on.

The venue was nice, but seemed tightly set up, even outdated. The fact that they continued to post the team scores on the giant score board instead of the match scores was ridiculous. Some of the friendliest ushers I ever encountered. 

I loved the comradery amongst wrestling fans. I as a tOSU fan had a great time chatting it up with Penn St fans during one break. Scalped tickets for session 3 in the Iowa fan section. I had a great time with those fans.

The food and bar scene was nice, and the people and service were outstanding. 

I understand the homeless scene and the fact that they are looking for hand outs, but there was a large contingent that you just could not ignore or avoid.

I give Pittsburgh a C, as a host of the event.

Nashville would be awesome. I have traveled there for a concert and Bridgestone Arena is located at the end of the strip. Plenty of hotels and entertainment in the area. I would also love to see it at Nationwide Arena in Columbus. The Arena District is set up perfect for this event.

 

Are you from New Jersey? 

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Pittsburgh started out rocky but eventually got it right.

The arena itself was fine.  Great place to watch an event, great in house food and options, and of course accommodating all types of fans.

Negative: ability to see each mat score/time due to the spread of matches taking up so much space on the ring and view obstruction by the scoreboard.  Totally annoyed me during multiple instances.  I thought it would improve as the mats lessened but it actually got worse Friday PM, then got better Saturday AM when they posted them on the scoreboard.  

Session Timing: on the NCAA but was really short.  If you stayed downtown whether hotel wise or drink/food wise it probably was good.  Having to go through the Fort Pitt tunnel every session dominated a lot of the day.  Spent too much time in transit due to lack of downtown hotel availability.

Would agree that Downtown met all reasonable expectations.

Atmosphere of the event wasn't electric as NCAA's goes, and the finals were boring overall.  Sometimes the product dictates the crowd enthusiasm.

Overall: B

 

  

 

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On 3/25/2019 at 11:21 AM, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Ranking the past 10 (based on my experiences) I would go:

NYC:  A+ 
Cleveland:  A-
Pittsburgh: B+
Philadelphia:  B
St. Louis (x3):  B-
Omaha: B-
Oklahoma City:  C+
Des Moines:  C

Agree on this list except St Louis trumps Pitt and Philly for me.  I would give Cleveland an even grade with St Louis.  

I find it interesting that certain accommodations attract some and not others.  

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Hotels: B+ pricey but that is too be expected when they know they have a large event

Food: A- lots of options, very friendly service, and some great local spots we got from people who grew up there

Arena: C+ The view were very good, none were obstructed and pretty close to mats. Terrible job of getting people in and out. Felt very old. Heard the coaches and wrestlers didn't like it.

Location: B pretty close to the majority of the hotels and the downtown area. Easy area to navigate.

Overall: B

Would love to see them head somewhere new and different (preferably warm) like Nashville, Dallas, Orlando, or Atlanta. 

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Hotels:   B pricey and not directly connected to the arena

Food:      A- multiple options however limited after the last session downtown.

Arena:     C There is nothing unique about the arena inside. Line of sight was limited in the upper decks due to the limited floor space, making tables close to mats.                             Terrible job of getting people in and out. Felt very old. Heard the coaches and wrestlers didn't like it.

Location: B pretty close to the majority of the hotels and the downtown area. I know of multiple people that flew into Cleveland and DC and drove due to the high cost                         and limited flight availability into Pittsburgh. Cost for flying home on Sunday were very high and limited.

Traffic:  D  There was no coordination on traffic flow. One police officer would hold up traffic in one direction only to get to the next intersection and with another ten                          minutes.

Ticket Prices: D-  This was a sham! There were multiple empty seats for all sessions and scalping prices were at the low end. There were not a large number of buyers                                  looking for tickets because they had been scared away.

Overall: C-

I agree move it to a warm location. To help the sport grow lets send it west and reward those programs that have kept wrestling. LA, San Diego Phoenix  

Arena doors need to open 90 minutes prior to the first match not 60. It was not bad if you went around to the other two entrances - smaller lines.

New York City  A

Oklahoma City A - love Bricktown

Cleveland          A-  Downtown restaurants, bars and hotels were all close and prepared to handle the crowds

Omaha               B   Great downtown however just too small. Flights were also very limited

Philadelphia      B   A little pricey but sooooooooo many downtown options and with the subway traffic was not an issue

Chapel Hill         B-  Great weather, traffic was perfect, hotels were outstanding - arena was designed for basketball and seats were tight. Love to see it return to the area

Washington DC/College Park  B-  LOVED IT! Arena stunk! Send it back to downtown DC.

Des Moines        B- Great skywalks, hotels were close, lots of bars downtown. Outstanding food choices! City and arena are just to small to handle the event

Minneapolis       B- Again love the hotels, restaurants, bars and sights to see downtown. The Target Center was not designed for wrestling and the line of sight was                                          bad.  This time - new arena - light rail is up and running. Downtown has actually grown in food and bar options, excited to return

St Louis               B--/C+  It's getting old going to the same place. Dirty downtown - Union Station is all but gone. Love The Hill and places away from downtown

Pittsburgh           C+  See above

Kansas City         C  Love KC BBQ however holding the event at Kemper was a bad choice. Move it to the Sprint Center downtown and it's a great place.

Detroit                  C-  A lot of the issue had to do with it being held at Auburn Hills. This time it will be downtown - safe for the most part during the day however                                                evenings do not have great food and bar options in the evenings.        

Ames/Iowa City/Cedar Falls    Great places however just too small to hold the event.          


  •  
Edited by wrestlefan57
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3 hours ago, LordNelson said:

Agree on this list except St Louis trumps Pitt and Philly for me.  I would give Cleveland an even grade with St Louis.  

I find it interesting that certain accommodations attract some and not others.  

I can't for the life of me understand why people like having the tourney in St. Louis.  Other than affordability, and I guess a casino in walking distance, what's good about it?

My apologies to the nice people of St. Louis, but that city is an absolute dump, and the downtown/arena area has zero character.  

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Not understanding the takes saying the PPG Pains arena was old. it was build brand new in 2010. Scottrade in St Louis opened in 1994, and definitely felt 2 decades older than Pittsburgh. The Q in Cleveland also opened in 1994. It held up better than Scottrade but was far more cramped, than both PPG and Scottrade. PPG was also more spacious than MSG, tho MSG has been upgraded more recently. 

everything is subjective so to each their own but I thought the arena was excellent. my one thing would be floor space was tight and a saw too many wrestlers hit the tables. take out more seats and create more floor space when there are 8 mats down. there were plenty of empty seats in the early rounds. 

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44 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Not understanding the takes saying the PPG Pains arena was old. it was build brand new in 2010. Scottrade in St Louis opened in 1994, and definitely felt 2 decades older than Pittsburgh. The Q in Cleveland also opened in 1994. It held up better than Scottrade but was far more cramped, than both PPG and Scottrade. PPG was also more spacious than MSG, tho MSG has been upgraded more recently. 

everything is subjective so to each their own but I thought the arena was excellent. my one thing would be floor space was tight and a saw too many wrestlers hit the tables. take out more seats and create more floor space when there are 8 mats down. there were plenty of empty seats in the early rounds. 

Yes, too many wrestlers hit tables.

I made this point before. They Closed seven Rows on one side and none on the other.  INSTEAD close 5 rows on each. That will give from 6 to 7.5 extra on the floor. That means 3 feet more between the circle and the table.---(I would add twelve 2 foot by  20 foot mats for additional protection, one for each mat between the main mat and the table,. then put 4 at the end mats, 1,2,7,8. Minimum 7 foot of mat past the circle. You would need four 2' by 10' for protection with Friday Nights dog bone formation)---- 70 to 90 seats per row, therefore we lose about 240 seats. 

And now, to correct the obstruction of viewing caused by the scoreboards. Put the big "cubical" scoreboards beside the table with tops maybe a few inches above the feet of those in the closest seat. You will be able to see the scoreboard side away from the table on the mat, and on the far side of the arena. The two scoreboard side faces from the end seats, the head table, and the coaches seats. However the folks in the seats closest to the mat, will not be able to see the cubicle scoreboard. What we do is put in the corners of the mats not occupied by the coaches is a low  scoreboard maybe 18 inches high and 6 feet long. This type of scoreboard was used for the EIWA, for the NCAA slightly larger ones are needed. Everyone sitting behind the score table, up in the stands, for a given mat should be able to see one or the other or both. .     
 

Edited by RichB

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36 minutes ago, RichB said:

Yes, too many wrestlers hit tables.

I made this point before. They Closed seven Rows on one side and none on the other.  INSTEAD close 5 rows on each. That will give from 6 to 7.5 extra on the floor. That means 3 feet more between the circle and the table.---(I would add twelve 2 foot by  20 foot mats for additional protection, one for each mat between the main mat and the table,. then put 4 at the end mats, 1,2,7,8. Minimum 7 foot of mat past the circle. You would need four 2' by 10' for protection with Friday Nights dog bone formation)---- 70 to 90 seats per row, therefore we lose about 240 seats. 


 

I don't have a strong view about whether your proposal or a different one is the right solution, but it's incumbent on NCAA to prioritize this and to figure out an effective response. 

I saw at least two hard collisions (RBY/DeSanto, and I think it was Lehigh 174 pounder?), and I'm surprised I didn't see more.  Given the strength of the athletes and the intensity of the action, it's not a question of whether but of when and how badly someone will get seriously injured.  

We were upper deck on the end, which provided a clear view of the (lack of) space between the circle and the table;.  The first thing you notice looking down from there when there are wrestlers on the mat is this obvious hazard.  Then you ask why they haven't addressed it.  They don't even appear to have put any foam cushioning on the table edges (which isn't a good answer, but at least it would show some consideration of the injury risk).  

Removing prime seats is a loss, but if that's the only way to do it, they should do it.  

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Drag it

Lehigh had two table collision. Kutler vs Amine resulted in a Concussion Protocol, first period I think.. Obviously a concussion means he dft that bout ann Mfft in the blood round. However, even though not concussed, I suspect the injury cost Kutler the bout. He was 4 seconds from a rideout in the 6th period, but ended with ~ 24 seconds time advantage. Amine then got a TD ~12 secs to go on the 7th. JK would have likely been favored in the second set of TBs.

Then in Consie round of 16 #2 Jakobsen injured his knee on a table. He held on to win that, but his leg was really wrapped the next bout, a close loss.

Back when the HS and College Rulebook were the same, it strongly recommended nothing, no table, scoreboard, chair, bleacher be within 10' of the mat. Normally that was interpreted as   10 feet from the circle.  That would be great, but I think maybe 8 works in college, 7 in HS, 6 in JrHs/MS, 5 in Elementary. 

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