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Pittsburgh grades

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3 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I can't for the life of me understand why people like having the tourney in St. Louis.  Other than affordability, and I guess a casino in walking distance, what's good about it?

My apologies to the nice people of St. Louis, but that city is an absolute dump, and the downtown/arena area has zero character.  

I agree with you 100%!!!!!! Not only is downtown a dump its unsafe. The arena has continued to decline over the years as it is city owned however the new operators of the now Enterprise Center have promised updates. (Formerly known as Kiel Center, Savvis Center and Scottrade Center)

My son went to law school in St Louis and would not go downtown unless there was a baseball game due to the high crime rate. People want to blame the high rate on East St Louis however the west side of the river is not far behind on crime.

I hear about how great is is having a casino and strip clubs so close. The Landing has all but shut down, and baseball village is only an option when the Cards are in town. We waited hours for a restaurant downtown because they were not aware wrestling was in town. 

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10 minutes ago, wrestlefan57 said:

I agree with you 100%!!!!!! Not only is downtown a dump its unsafe. The arena has continued to decline over the years as it is city owned however the new operators of the now Enterprise Center have promised updates. (Formerly known as Kiel Center, Savvis Center and Scottrade Center)

My son went to law school in St Louis and would not go downtown unless there was a baseball game due to the high crime rate. People want to blame the high rate on East St Louis however the west side of the river is not far behind on crime.

I hear about how great is is having a casino and strip clubs so close. The Landing has all but shut down, and baseball village is only an option when the Cards are in town. We waited hours for a restaurant downtown because they were not aware wrestling was in town. 

Yikes, well it's back in St. Louis after next year, right? Then Detroit?

I think JB once explained the nationals venue bidding and selection process, but I can't remember at all how it works.

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One nice touch I appreciated.  The sign holders on the sidewalks pointing folks to Fan Fest, then back to the arena.  Especially nice for us foreigners.  Also the city posted traffic cops and barricades by the corner of the arena/church headed towards downtown.  All good.

No issues with the arena, ingress or egress.  Of course it was packed after the semi's as fans tried to leave.  Its all part of the deal.  Food-Bev choices were good.

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50 minutes ago, pamela said:

Yikes, well it's back in St. Louis after next year, right? Then Detroit?

I think JB once explained the nationals venue bidding and selection process, but I can't remember at all how it works.

Sadly it goes back to St Louis but only for one year. 

We should see RFP's going out sometime after the Minneapolis finals. Having worked in arena management the bid process takes some time to work through the RFP and calculate revenue and expenses. 

Historically once the RFP's are received the committee will narrow the field down to a reasonable number. The number will depend on how many years they are accepting bids. Those chosen will then be scheduled for a presentation. The committee will then cut the field in half and there will be a final presentation based upon feedback from the committee.

I have NO inside information however if the tournament does will in the dome I anticipate new bidders from almost every large domed facility in the USA. If the line of sight issues can be resolved it would be great holding his in most of those cities.

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For those interested in the process, here's are the bid specs for the last process:

http://67.227.214.227/~bidsncaa/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/General-Bid-Specifications-2018-2022-FINAL.pdf

And criteria:

Your bid(s) will be evaluated on the following criteria:
• Creation of special opportunities and experiences for student-athletes
• Adherence to bid specifications and NCAA guidelines
• Providing facilities with optimal conditions for student-athletes, spectators and media
• Preparation of a proposed operating budget that is consistent with sport standards and event specifications
• Recognition of ancillary costs (transportation, hotel, etc.) that impact site feasibility
• Previous successful hosting efforts of important championship events
• Rationale for hosting that reflects commitment to NCAA principles

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15 hours ago, wrestlefan57 said:

I have NO inside information however if the tournament does will in the dome I anticipate new bidders from almost every large domed facility in the USA. If the line of sight issues can be resolved it would be great holding his in most of those cities.

It will be an interesting experiment.  Curious to see how the final 4 does at U.S. Bank next weekend too.  

Re: other domes... a lot of them are in the south where we don't have any D1 programs.  Lucas Oil is the most obvious one that sticks out, and I'd guess IU might be interested in hosting.  

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Is Enterprise set in stone in St. Louis? In the event US bank is a huge success STL does in fact have a dome. It has hosted the final four in the past.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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23 minutes ago, TD2 said:

Is Enterprise set in stone in St. Louis? In the event US bank is a huge success STL does in fact have a dome. It has hosted the final four in the past.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

Unlikely that the Dome in St Louis will ever attract a new NFL team. They would, of course want something new. It would be interesting if the owners, City, + State could convert it into a very large arena for traditional Indoor sports, Basketball, Hockey Gymnastics Wrestling etc. The original Georgia dome was built to host 2 sports for the 1996 Olympics. Other Olympic hosts have done something Similar. 

A quick count of USA domed Stadiums: 10 current NFL and 2 future. 6 MLB with one or two scheduled for replacement. 3 College possibles, Syracuse, North Dakota State, And UNI (already tried and likely too small. Other college domes are of the AHL sized (12,000 or less).

I wonder if a Baseball dome might work better for our sport than football??? Milwaukee has one. 

Edited by RichB

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1 hour ago, RichB said:

Unlikely that the Dome in St Louis will ever attract a new NFL team. They would, of course want something new. It would be interesting if the owners, City, + State could convert it into a very large arena for traditional Indoor sports, Basketball, Hockey Gymnastics Wrestling etc. The original Georgia dome was built to host 2 sports for the 1996 Olympics. Other Olympic hosts have done something Similar. 

A quick count of USA domed Stadiums: 10 current NFL and 2 future. 6 MLB with one or two scheduled for replacement. 3 College possibles, Syracuse, North Dakota State, And UNI (already tried and likely too small. Other college domes are of the AHL sized (12,000 or less).

I wonder if a Baseball dome might work better for our sport than football??? Milwaukee has one. 

I guess one good thing is that basketball teams don't really like certain types of domes or wide arenas (like NRG Stadium) with floating island courts because they think the optics messes with their shooting. Wide and open seems to work for wrestling though so the venues that are rejected for March Madness could be up for grabs for wrestling.

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This was first time at Nationals. Of course I loved the location, I am from NWPA. I have read this entire thread and have a few questions.

I read where someone mentioned move to a warmer location and out west. People want to complain about the traffic and costs at Pitts.

Check out the hotel costs and traffic in places like La, Pho and SD. These locations are nuts. And also throw in the crime rate in these locations.

And when talking about the weather. Wait till next year (Minn is colder and more snow fall that Pitts)

And it seemed a lot of folks liked NYC, from my looking hotels there at least double the costs of any other normal city.

And also it looks like there are not many hotels with in 4-5 city blocks from US Bank in Minn.

Just a few things I noticed.

 

 

 

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OK. I'll confess, I won the $750M lottery last night. Drove to wisconsin. 

I want to build the perfect wrestling oriented arena. How? What design? (I don't need to worry about where, Old railroad yards in my town for location.) And by wrestling oriented I mean B-Bal, Hockey, MMA/Boxing, Concerts, Dog Shows etc are all incidental (No WWE ever)

Anyway question #1. What size mats?? NCAA uses 32' circle in 42' square. But is that because no other way get 8 mats in NHL arenas. EIWA this year went with 4 mats of identical size to the NCAA. In the Past EIWA mats were bigger, But I hear coaches want 32' circle 42' square for every tournament. However, it looks like B1G goes with large, with circles of 42' or at least 37'.

So which is the way to go???

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One problem getting quality arenas with everything near the event is that the NCAA basketball tournament is being held in many of those arenas already.

It will be interesting to see how Minnesota works out in the dome.

St. Louis is worse than Pittsburgh. 

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As a west coaster,  I'm looking for a place that I can get 1) a direct flight, b) reasonable hotel rates (preferably in walking distance, but I've learned to deal with that), c) Fan Fest close by d) and relatively safe.  Pittsburgh didn't have many direct flights, but I found one, and everything else checked out for the most part, but much prefer the fan fest to be close by.  I froze walking to it in Cleveland.  

Edited by WRfan1

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I hope Wash DC is in the next gang of four. 3 major airports, and a good transit system. Never been in the arena, but it appears to be about size of everything post DEs Moines. Close to the Smithsonian, so lots to do inexpensively between even before rounds. Yeah hotel and meals won't be cheap (you use to be go into Dept of Agriculture and get a real good cafeteria meal cheap) Again, with the Metro so you need not stay downtown. (and there is a nice county campground nearby - if you are cheaper than me you can camp in the national forest.   

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On 3/28/2019 at 12:18 PM, 462711 said:

This was first time at Nationals. Of course I loved the location, I am from NWPA. I have read this entire thread and have a few questions.

I read where someone mentioned move to a warmer location and out west. People want to complain about the traffic and costs at Pitts.

Check out the hotel costs and traffic in places like LA, Pho and SD. These locations are nuts. And also throw in the crime rate in these locations.

And when talking about the weather. Wait till next year (Minn is colder and more snow fall that Pitts)

And it seemed a lot of folks liked NYC, from my looking hotels there at least double the costs of any other normal city.

And also it looks like there are not many hotels with in 4-5 city blocks from US Bank in Minn.

Just a few things I noticed.

 

 

 

Coming from the midwest it is cheaper to fly to LA, PHX, SD or DFW than Pittsburgh. The limited number of flights out of Pittsburgh allowed airfares to increase drastically.

There is also a limited number of hotels in downtown Pittsburgh it allowed hotels to nearly double the rack rate. 

Ticket availability was also a significant issue - secondary market prices were more than double face value. The good news is prices scared off enough people that scalper prices were very reasonable.

Next year in Minneapolis the available number of rooms within walking distance will be more than double Pittsburgh, of which 90% of those rooms will be connected via the Skywalk system in downtown Minneapolis. Temps will not be a factor as you will not need to walk outside. (downtown hotels are more than double those in Pittsburgh when your radius is one mile or less from the stadiums/arenas)

The light rail picks up directly in front of the stadium, and it also has direct access from the airport in addition to St Paul and Mall of America.

LA also offers light rail from the airport and PHX and SD airports are actually located near downtown.

If you were not from the area and not staying with friends and family Pittsburgh was one of the most expensive cities in the past 20 years. NYC offers enough options you can find inexpensive lodging and food plus the cost of flights are reduced by the number of flights, airlines and airports.

Pittsburgh crime rates are in-line with most of the larger metro areas in the USA - excluding St Louis and Detroit.

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One thing I realized about Pittsburgh, after poking around on the net. The Folks who live in the city are not raising families, Must be a lot of young unmarrieds, newly weds, never wanting kids, or seniors. Pittsburgh, Population 302,000. 25,000 kids in school. Allentown and Bethlehem (SD including 4 small municipalities) 215,000 over 30,000 students. The 4 high schools in the two cities have almost half again the students of the 6 in Pitt. 

Admittedly, Not real relevant to the discussion, but I found it interesting. I wonder if there are other such cities (Philadelphia has 5 times Pitt Population, but 8 times the students, in line with Allentown and Bethlehem.

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One thing I realized about Pittsburgh, after poking around on the net. The Folks who live in the city are not raising families, Must be a lot of young unmarrieds, newly weds, never wanting kids, or seniors. Pittsburgh, Population 302,000. 25,000 kids in school. Allentown and Bethlehem (SD including 4 small municipalities) 215,000 over 30,000 students. The 4 high schools in the two cities have almost half again the students of the 6 in Pitt. 
Admittedly, Not real relevant to the discussion, but I found it interesting. I wonder if there are other such cities (Philadelphia has 5 times Pitt Population, but 8 times the students, in line with Allentown and Bethlehem.
Allegheny County average age is the second oldest in nation. Stagnant population - not losing population any more but not enough inflow or births to grow.

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On 3/28/2019 at 10:18 AM, 462711 said:

This was first time at Nationals. Of course I loved the location, I am from NWPA. I have read this entire thread and have a few questions.

I read where someone mentioned move to a warmer location and out west. People want to complain about the traffic and costs at Pitts.

Check out the hotel costs and traffic in places like La, Pho and SD. These locations are nuts. And also throw in the crime rate in these locations.

And when talking about the weather. Wait till next year (Minn is colder and more snow fall that Pitts)

And it seemed a lot of folks liked NYC, from my looking hotels there at least double the costs of any other normal city.

And also it looks like there are not many hotels with in 4-5 city blocks from US Bank in Minn.

Just a few things I noticed.

 

 

 

I'm sure there are exceptions from days gone by, but I've been to 12 NCAAs and I've never  had crime be an issue at any location - that's just fear mongering imo.   I stayed in a 3.5 star suburban hotel in Pittsburgh and there was a lady of the night running her operation out of the floor I was on about 10 doors down. Never seen that before. Yikes.  It was kinda comical seeing the stream of different dudes rolling in there every time I'd leave to go back to the tournament.  Every place has its issues, but all the NCAAs I've been to have been safe.  I've also stayed many times in SD, Phoenix, and LA and never had crime issues.  Do a little research and avoid the really bad areas and you'll be fine. 

Edited by WRfan1

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26 minutes ago, WRfan1 said:

I'm sure there are exceptions from days gone by, but I've been to 12 NCAAs and I've never  had crime be an issue at any location - that's just fear mongering imo.   I stayed in a 3.5 star suburban hotel in Pittsburgh and there was a lady of the night running her operation out of the floor I was on about 10 doors down. Never seen that before. Yikes.  It was kinda comical seeing the stream of different dudes rolling in there every time I'd leave to go back to the tournament.  Every place has its issues, but all the NCAAs I've been to have been safe.  I've also stayed many times in SD, Phoenix, and LA and never had crime issues.  Do a little research and avoid the really bad areas and you'll be fine. 

You haven't seen the ticket and concession prices?

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16 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

You haven't seen the ticket and concession prices?

Its high, but is lower by quite a bit than going to watch an MLB or NFL game where I live  - I can see that it is probably different in other parts of the country.  It sucks to say it, but the west coast is so ridiculously expensive that I don't get much sticker shock at the NCAAs.   

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About 21 years ago Pittsburgh Port Authority required all Restaurants at the Pitt airport to match prices of local outside restaurants. Unfortunately about 19 years ago USAIR took their hub from Pitt to Philly. 

 

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