Finals Thoughts

[OBXWrestler 98]

125: Spencer Lee’s the toughest Pokémon fan of all time  

133: Fix and Suriano should never wrestle again. Please. 

141: Yianni’s mental game is stronger than 99% of people. 

149: Ash was the best guy all year and he proved it again. 

157: Nolf next topic. 

165: Lewis being VT’s first champ was really cool to watch. He basically cenzo’d cenzo. 

174: Hall and Valencia is the greatest college rivalry right now and maybe ever. Still not convinced that Valencia had the td though. 

184: Doug Schwab is doing great things at UNI. Good to see it pay off.  

197: Honestly, I expected more fireworks from Nickal.  

285: Cassar’s leg attacks are next level. Cael continues to prove he not only gets the best recruits but develops guys as well. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by OBXWrestler

[TBar1977 3,871]

Just now, OBXWrestler said:

125: Spencer Lee

133: Fix and Suriano should never wrestle again. Please. 

141: Yianni’s mental game is stronger than 99% of people. 

149: Ash was the best guy all year and he proved it again. 

157: Nolf next topic. 

165: Lewis being VT’s first champ was really cool to watch. He basically cenzo’d cenzo. 

174: Hall and Valencia is the greatest college rivalry right now and maybe ever. Still not convinced that Valencia had the td though. 

184: Doug Schwab is doing great things at UNI. Good to see it pay off.  

197: Honestly, I expected more fireworks from Nickal.  

 

Proof that Hwts get no respeck. They can wrestle first and still not get noticed. 

[wrestlingnerd 2,600]

How do you forget to give props to Casar? He wrestled his ass off. 

[OBXWrestler 98]

3 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

How do you forget to give props to Casar? He wrestled his ass off. 

Didn’t forget just hit submit topic too soon while doing some other things. 

[Marcus Cisero 340]

For me this was of the most exciting NCAA wrestling finals ever. All the matches were excellent but the wins I most enjoyed were

125 lb Spencer Lee, 133 lb Nick Suriano, 165 lb Mekhi Lewis, 184 lb Drew Foster and 285 lb Anthony Cassar.

[WillieBoy 713]

Some good matches. But - have a problem with the riding strategy refs let them get away with. Spiral ride and too many just sit there without moving up to work for a pin. Part of that is the refs fault for letting it happen. I like a good rider but the object if to move up and pin the opponent. Too much of what I saw was basically stalling, not going for the advantage.

While we're at it - I did get to watch it on the computer. All those DAMN commercials! Could have used more analysis, interviews and background and stories on the schools and wrestlers. Don't have a TV and have not for decades and this is one good reason.

Edited March 24, 2019 by WillieBoy

[Marcus Cisero 340]

I hear ya on the commercials. I despise them more now than ever because its more PC than selling the products.  I'm not a computer guy but I have something called ad block that actually prevents ads from appearing on my screen. This is most evident on UTube - its commercial free with this feature in place.  I plan on watching the event again - commercial free, once its posted to UTube - it may already be.

[pamela 1,334]

Kind of a lot of controversy and questions on top of the normal tourney takeaways and surprises. The next FRL could be a 6 hour show if they wanted.

[2td3nf 538]

For the NCAA tournament, wonder what the percentage is of wrestlers that score first td (in 1st period only) and go on to win that match. Would love to see that stat for the whole tournament.

[WillieBoy 713]

4 hours ago, Marcus Cisero said:

I hear ya on the commercials. I despise them more now than ever because its more PC than selling the products.  I'm not a computer guy but I have something called ad block that actually prevents ads from appearing on my screen. This is most evident on UTube - its commercial free with this feature in place.  I plan on watching the event again - commercial free, once its posted to UTube - it may already be.

Don't usually do many video viewings on the computer as the slow connection makes it difficult. For some reason this NCAA final worked - though did have to do its recycling/buffering a number of times during the broadcast.

The Super Bowl? I tried it and the commercials really screwed it for me. Turned it off and listened on the radio - and discovered the radio broadcast was just finishing up the second quarter while the computer TV broadcast was not yet finished with the 1st quarter. So - all the damnable commercials and way behind as well.

I know they have to pay for broadcasts but would like more analysis, commentary from folks actually familiar with the sport and maybe interviews of past champs and coaches.

[Jcub 0]

6 hours ago, OBXWrestler said:

133: Fix and Suriano should never wrestle again. Please.

But seriously. 

[JHRoseWrestling 179]

34 minutes ago, 2td3nf said:

For the NCAA tournament, wonder what the percentage is of wrestlers that score first td (in 1st period only) and go on to win that match. Would love to see that stat for the whole tournament.

This stat will be biased STRONGLY in favor of the wrestler who scored the first T2.  The reason being, in a match where one wrestler is appreciably better than the other, he will almost always get the first takedown, and ultimately win.

Would you consider modifying your question?  Possibly what % of matches decided by 3 or less points are won by the the the athlete who scores the first takedown?  Or five points or less or whatever you consider a close match.  If seeding were more reliable I would say we could use that as an indicator-- something like in bouts between athletes seeded within 5 places of each other...  But we all know this year's seeding was not necessarily an accurate representation of the demonstrated ability of the athletes in question.

I am not being critical, I like where your head is at.  I am just wondering what the best way to measure might be.

[2td3nf 538]

2 minutes ago, JHRoseWrestling said:

This stat will be biased STRONGLY in favor of the wrestler who scored the first T2.  The reason being, in a match where one wrestler is appreciably better than the other, he will almost always get the first takedown, and ultimately win.

Would you consider modifying your question?  Possibly what % of matches decided by 3 or less points are won by the the the athlete who scores the first takedown?  Or five points or less or whatever you consider a close match.  If seeding were more reliable I would say we could use that as an indicator-- something like in bouts between athletes seeded within 5 places of each other...  But we all know this year's seeding was not necessarily an accurate representation of the demonstrated ability of the athletes in question.

I am not being critical, I like where your head is at.  I am just wondering what the best way to measure might be.

Yeah I'm just basing this off of how many matches I saw where both wrestlers seemed content to go to the 2nd period 0-0. Those matches wouldn't count in my stat. 

And yes, you're right, the superior wrestler will skew the data I'm actually looking for. Maybe throw in the seed or a match decided by 3 or less.

Actually, want to see all this data now.     :) 

[jsmalls131313 37]

5 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

Some good matches. But - have a problem with the riding strategy refs let them get away with. Spiral ride and too many just sit there without moving up to work for a pin. Part of that is the refs fault for letting it happen. I like a good rider but the object if to move up and pin the opponent. Too much of what I saw was basically stalling, not going for the advantage.

While we're at it - I did get to watch it on the computer. All those DAMN commercials! Could have used more analysis, interviews and background and stories on the schools and wrestlers. Don't have a TV and have not for decades and this is one good reason.

Not only that. Many times they bang the bottom guy for stalling when the top guy is just riding parallel, pressing forward and not actually working for anything. 

[Icemeister 14]

9 hours ago, Marcus Cisero said:

For me this was of the most exciting NCAA wrestling finals ever.

Hmm..... I guess we each have our own unique perspectives.  While there were a few close, exciting matches, I thought overall this was one of the more boring, and certainly more frustrating, finals in recent years.  It certainly didn't live up to last year's finals in terms of overall excitement. The fact that the team race was completely decided before the finals was even underway, probably contributed somewhat to that.  And the expected excitement from Penn State's two Hodge candidates turned out to be somewhat of a dud.  But I think the biggest issue might have been all the stoppages.  The controversial calls and annoying reviews really were frustrating and a major drag on the overall pace and action of the evening.  It took forever to get through the 133 and 141 matches. 

For those who aren't hard core wrestling fans, and even for those who are, something really needs to be done with how reviews are handled.  All of the brick throwing needs to stop. I agree with those who have said that if you challenge a call and it's not overturned, your wrestler should get a one point deduction.  I think that change would significantly reduce the amount of challenges we currently see.  I also think that reviews should be conducted by an independent party or panel (rather than the refs who are officiating the match).  That's probably not practical in all situations, but certainly that could be and should be done for the NCAA Championship Finals.

Finally, I'm still scratching my head on what a takedown is and isn't.  We had three controversial takedown rulings in the finals, twice in the 141 match and once at 174.  In each case the review upheld the original call.  However, that wasn't the case in the Nolf/Hidlay semifinal or the Deakin/Young fifth place match.  In both of those cases overturning the original call resulted in more controversy than had they upheld it.  It's possible that Nolf never had 3 points of contact once Hidlay was behind him, but there definitely didn't appear to be sufficient evidence for that to overturn the original call made on the mat.  And the reversal of Deakin's takedown on Young as time expired in regulation was even more egregious.  The video clearly showed that Deakin had a takedown well before time expired, yet the 2 points he was initially awarded were taken off the board after review.  If we're gong to have a review process, we need to make sure that reviews get it right -- and most importantly, that reviews minimize controversy, rather than create more of it.