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spladle

141 Finals

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So let's talk about the questionable calls of 141.  I think the 2nd period should have been a TD for Diakomihalis and possibly even swipes.  He had clear control with McKenna's back exposed.  At the very least it should have been 2 TD 1 E.  In the 3rd period, I am not convinced of Diakomihalis having control and it almost appears to be a make up call for the bad 2nd period call.

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15 hours ago, spladle said:

So let's talk about the questionable calls of 141.  I think the 2nd period should have been a TD for Diakomihalis and possibly even swipes.  He had clear control with McKenna's back exposed.  At the very least it should have been 2 TD 1 E.  In the 3rd period, I am not convinced of Diakomihalis having control and it almost appears to be a make up call for the bad 2nd period call.

I agree it was a takedown when Yianni stuck JM on his back.  I have to see the match again but I didn't think it was 2 at the end.  I have a big problem with the inconsistency with how TDs are called now in college.  They award TDs now if a guy barely turns the corner and his opponent's hand swipes the mat for an instant and the give no reaction time in that situation.  So we see a lot of flash TDs where the "bottom" guy is out immediately.  However if you double leg a guy to his ass or hip, or if you headlock a guy to his back, or if you did as Yianni  did and bundle a guy to their back they want to give a lot of "reaction time" before a TD is awarded. All of those later positions are harder to get and much closer to "control" than the flash TDs being typically awarded now.  I know those flash TDs are due to the rules committee wanting to remove as much referee judgement from the equation as possible as when "control is established. but I think something needs to be done to make things more consistent.

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35 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Succinct and accurate representation of what many of us believe. Thanks 

I agree that the "right" guy won. But I also think it's crazy to base it on who is "right." 

Also, if Yianni had been awarded two or four at the end of the second, the third period would have been wrestled differently by both guys.

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1 minute ago, NJDan said:

I agree that the "right" guy won. But I also think it's crazy to base it on who is "right." 

Also, if Yianni had been awarded two or four at the end of the second, the third period would have been wrestled differently by both guys.

Yeah true. Unfortunately the refs ruined that for us. 

The good news is, it came down to a takedown in OT. Both guys had the opportunity to win it there, and Yianni was able to capitalize. It helps make the whole thing better to me

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the second period call was worse than the third period call, but both calls were going to generate controversy because either decision in either case could be defended. the karmic justice in such a case is overtime. in the words of the great rasheed wallace, when his opponent missed the free throw on a bogus technical... "ball don't lie."

Edited by ugarte

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14 hours ago, Coach_J said:

Some iffy calls but no problem with the final outcome.  McKenna laid off the pace and it cost him.  Two great wrestlers and a great bout.

Agree almost entirely with this, but Yianni is on another level and his talent could take him to an Olympic gold medal, whereas I respectfully believe McKenna has maxed out his abilities.  

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6 minutes ago, ugarte said:

the second period call was worse than the third period call, but both calls were going to generate controversy because either decision in either case could be defended. the karmic justice in such a case is overtime. in the words of the great rasheed wallace, when his opponent missed the free throw on a bogus technical... "ball don't lie."

Rasheed may have said that, but he surely was not the first.

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12 minutes ago, Frank_Rizzo said:

Agree almost entirely with this, but Yianni is on another level and his talent could take him to an Olympic gold medal, whereas I respectfully believe McKenna has maxed out his abilities.  

Astute observation.

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-wrestling/2018/04/92844/joey-mckenna-wins-us-open-senior-freestyle-wrestling-championship

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I'm glad Yianni won because it makes college wrestling more interesting going forward - but I don't see that Yianni is on another level yet. He easily could have lost each of his last three matches. Any of those three guys could have won; Yianni seems like a transcendent scrambler, but his general defense is not transcendent by any means. I think at this point there are a number of people who could beat him, or at least the version of him that I saw at this year's NCAAs.

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1 minute ago, RJChicago said:

I'm glad Yianni won because it makes college wrestling more interesting going forward - but I don't see that Yianni is on another level yet. He easily could have lost each of his last three matches. Any of those three guys could have won; Yianni seems like a transcendent scrambler, but his general defense is not transcendent by any means. I think at this point there are a number of people who could beat him, or at least the version of him that I saw at this year's NCAAs.

That 66-1 collegiate record might argue otherwise.  He did beat the #2, 3, 4 and 8th place winners this year.  Two of McKenna's three losses this year were to Yianni.  Two of Eierman's four losses this year were to Yianni.  The only losses by Meredith two years ago were to Yianni.

Care to name some of those "number of people" who could beat him?

As for defense:  Getting to Yianni's legs isn't even half the battle.  Like Gabe Dean was, you might be able to get to Yianni's legs, but if you don't hit a freight train double, you are likely to get taken down yourself.

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1 hour ago, klehner said:

That 66-1 collegiate record might argue otherwise.  He did beat the #2, 3, 4 and 8th place winners this year.  Two of McKenna's three losses this year were to Yianni.  Two of Eierman's four losses this year were to Yianni.  The only losses by Meredith two years ago were to Yianni.

Care to name some of those "number of people" who could beat him?

As for defense:  Getting to Yianni's legs isn't even half the battle.  Like Gabe Dean was, you might be able to get to Yianni's legs, but if you don't hit a freight train double, you are likely to get taken down yourself.

Yes he is very good and as you said a great scrambler once people get into his legs and from a wide variety of positions. As far as his 66-1 record, yes he has been impressive, but there are many wrestlers who started off their careers with national championships and/or great records but struggled later in their careers and by struggled I mean failed to win their second, third, or fourth Nat'l championship. Yianni is awesome, but it is not impossible that he is one of these guys. I wouldn't say 141 last year and this year were weak weight classes but they were far from the toughest. Not all two-time champs are declared equal. And some two-time champs like David Taylor are better than some two-time or three-time champs, because their weight classes were unusually tough - or they had an historically good champ in their way. What Yianni has done is incredibly impressive, but there is more to the analysis than just looking at someone's record.

As for who could beat him going forward,  at this point, to me it seems there could be a number of folks, as evidenced by the fact that all three of the last three wrestlers he wrestled at NCAAs could have won those matches, so I would say those three to begin with. There are also a lot of intriguing redshirts - that could present challenges - which depends to some extent on weight class decisions between 141 and 149. But yeah, I take your point. Yianni is awesome, and getting to his legs is not even half-the-battle, and it is going to be awesome to continue to watch him.

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13 minutes ago, insidecradle said:

That move that Yianni uses, where he traps a guys arm with his leg by stepping behind his back. What's that move called?

Usually hear it referred to as an "arm bundle step-over."  Yianni likes to go knee tap first and then switch off to the step over.  

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18 hours ago, spladle said:

I think the right wrestler won, I just wasn't happy with the path the officiating took.

I'm hearing a lot of people say this but I'm not quite sure why Yianni would be considered the "right" wrestler.  Is it because we just think he's better?  McKenna took all of the leg attacks, and scored the only offensive takedown in regulation.  

The idea of a make-up call is ridiculous as well.  You can't have a make-up call when you already went to video review on the call that was supposedly missed in the first place.  

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4 hours ago, TheOhioState said:

That's a great breakdown. The only thing I have not seen anyone mention is that in the 3rd period sequence the TD is awarded at about 0:06 where Joey is in the seatbelt position but underneath Yianni. At about 0:04 Joey scoots around the face towards Yianni and can easily break apart but does not, and some say does not earn the escape. He obviously could have broken all contact there, so did he not know Yianni had been given the TD? 

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2 hours ago, RJChicago said:

I'm glad Yianni won because it makes college wrestling more interesting going forward - but I don't see that Yianni is on another level yet. He easily could have lost each of his last three matches. Any of those three guys could have won; Yianni seems like a transcendent scrambler, but his general defense is not transcendent by any means. I think at this point there are a number of people who could beat him, or at least the version of him that I saw at this year's NCAAs.

Despite the close scores, I think he beats McKenna 7 or 8 times out of 10, maybe 8 or 9 times, and Eierman 7 out of 10. Is that another level? Not in my book, but it is significantly better, despite the scores. So I basically agree with you, but with a few nits to pick.

I think he was a call away from losing against Eierman and McKenna, but Demas? He could not have "easily" lost that match. Could Demas beat him in the future? Anything is possible, but that match was not that close.

Re: his defense, I disagree. I think it is excellent (maybe not "transcendent"), just not standard. Like any athlete would be wise to do, he has adopted the style that suits his body the best. The top guys get through his head/hands first line of defense more than you'd like to see for an elite wrestler, but Yianni scores a huge % of the time when he is in his crotchlift position or "spladle without the leg position", even on the top guys. He does it so consistently well that he is often better served getting into that position and forgoing traditional head/hands defense than blocking shots and depriving himself of the opportunity to score from those positions. In freestyle, which is his favorite style and the style he needs to focus on to achieve his ultimate goal, this is a huge asset. Yianni has been compared to Kyle Dake so many times it's now cliche, but in this regard, he really is a smaller version of Dake. The main difference between the two in those positions is that Dake is much stronger and more explosive so he can turn even senor world elite guys from those positions (even while giving up 20 lbs, which is incredible) while Yianni is still physically developing and probably can't.

I had Yianni winning NCAAs comfortably. I was wrong. It was not comfortable. Someone posted on another thread that Yianni is dealing with some injuries and may never physically peak again. That would be an incredible shame, but I felt the same way about Yianni this year as I did about Spencer Lee: incredible, rare talents but they did not wrestle this season close to their peak abilities.

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