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Jimmy Cinnabon

Rank the recent multi-time PSU champs

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When Cael was coaching at Iowa State he never had one guy of this caliber and he goes to Penn State and has several and only about 50% are from PA.  What is the difference?

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30 minutes ago, Bryan said:

When Cael was coaching at Iowa State he never had one guy of this caliber and he goes to Penn State and has several and only about 50% are from PA.  What is the difference?

Short tenure at Iowa State. Had he stayed there for 100 percent certain he'd have had David Taylor because DT was committed to go there. Once he had Taylor, I'm sure he'd have landed more top end guys. 

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Based solely on their college careers

1. Retherford

2. Taylor

3. Nolf/Nickal/Ruth

4. Wright

5. Joseph

Retherford gets the nod for being such a hammer on top. Nickal/Nolf were more feet to back type of guys while Retherford was a guy that just imposed his will on opponents once he took them down. For me turning a guy when all he's trying to do is not get turned has to be the hardest thing to do at D1 level. You could also argue that Zain deserved Ringer's Hodge.

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1. Nickal - 3x. Dominated 3 weight classes.  About 1 move away from being a 4 timer and 3 time champ at 3 weights.  Bonus volume speaks for itself.  

2. Nolf - 3x. Beat an all time great and was mostly unchallenged the rest of his career.  Bonus volume speaks for itself.

3. Retherford - 3x. Death from above.  Consistent, hard nosed, grinder. Mostly unchallenged his last 3 years of college competition.   

4. Ruth - 3x. Varied skill set, killer with the cradle, but had a few lapses in motivation.

5. Taylor - 2x. Couldn't get it done against Dake or Bubba to get #3.  Best of the 2 X'ers.  

6. Joseph 2x. Imar only a 2x champ. A few losses during reg season.  

7. Wright - 2x. Solid career, just others did it better.

Taylor  probably had the biggest impact.  Became the face of the program when he arrived and set the tone for the type of wrestling that PSU dominates with.  Coaches recruit but they need a face of the program to help the draw and DT was that guy.  Hard to say if the program would be where it is right now without the Magic Man. 

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1. Nickal - 3x. Dominated 3 weight classes.  About 1 move away from being a 4 timer and 3 time champ at 3 weights.  Bonus volume speaks for itself.  

2. Nolf - 3x. Beat an all time great and was mostly unchallenged the rest of his career.  Bonus volume speaks for itself.

3. Retherford - 3x. Death from above.  Consistent, hard nosed, grinder. Mostly unchallenged his last 3 years of college competition.   

4. Ruth - 3x. Varied skill set, killer with the cradle, but had a few lapses in motivation.

5. Taylor - 2x. Couldn't get it done against Dake or Bubba to get #3.  Best of the 2 X'ers.  

6. Joseph 2x. Imar only a 2x champ. A few losses during reg season.  

7. Wright - 2x. Solid career, just others did it better.

Taylor  probably had the biggest impact.  Became the face of the program when he arrived and set the tone for the type of wrestling that PSU dominates with.  Coaches recruit but they need a face of the program to help the draw and DT was that guy.  Hard to say if the program would be where it is right now without the Magic Man. 



Nickal was a 3x Champ at 2 different weights. 184 (twice) and 197...not at 3 weights. He took 2nd at 174 as a freshman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Ari Gold said:

 


Nickal was a 3x Champ at 2 different weights. 184 (twice) and 197...not at 3 weights. He took 2nd at 174 as a freshman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes I know, my statement wasn't clear.  I meant for it to read he was 1 move away from becoming a 4 time champ, with 3 of them at different weights.  Of course the one move is the throw that resulted in him getting reversed to his own back and ultimately losing that 174lb final.

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18 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

My ranking

1. Retherford

2. Nickal

3. Nolf

4. Ruth

5. Taylor

6. Wright

7. Joseph

But Jimmy--how could you possibly rank Taylor 5th when you previously ranked him in your top 5 NCAA wrestlers of all time?  How can this be!

Let's go back to January, on the topic of Nolf you had this to say:

Quote

No doubt he is an amazing wrestler.  Aggressive, creative, daring...loads of fun to watch, even for the most casual fan.

However, at best, he can only be a 3x champ and has taken multiple losses in his career (albeit to another great in IMar).  He also is not an accomplished freestyler and it is TBD if he can develop in that discipline.

As far as a wrestler he would not be in the top 5 all time greatest (e.g. in no particular order I think Cael, Dake, John Smith, DT, Uetake would all be above him).

So the question is...is Jason Nolf very very good, but overrated?

Weird. 

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I'd put Zain at number 1.  Three undefeated seasons, 2 Hodges, and making the world team whilst still in college gives him the edge.   

1) Retherford, 2) Nickal, 3) Nolf,  4) Ruth, 5) Taylor, 6) Wright, 7) Joseph

I think what hurts Taylor is that he doesn't have a signature win.  What is the top win of his college career?  Derek St. John?  Steve Fittery?  Tyler Caldwell?  St. John is the only wrestler he ever beat who went on to win NCAAs and they only wrestled as freshman.  Every one else in the list had at least one win over a returning NCAA champ.  Joseph beat Imar, Nickal beat Dean, Nolf beat Imar, Retherford beat Stieber, Ruth beat Bosak, Wright beat Kilgore.  Also Retherford, Nickal, and Nolf equaled or surpassed Taylor's pin total in fewer matches

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