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BigTenFanboy

Toughest path to the title

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Beating 2,3,4,8 imo is better than beating 2,4,7.
With that said Lewis absolutely without question deserved the OW.
He beat Marinelli and Joseph. Those two are better wrestlers than McKenna and anyone else in the 141 bracket.

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

He beat Marinelli and Joseph. Those two are better wrestlers than McKenna and anyone else in the 141 bracket.

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McKenna - 2x 3rd prior to this weekend and Final X Finalist.

I give McKenna the edge over Marinelli at this point.

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McKenna - 2x 3rd prior to this weekend and Final X Finalist.

I give McKenna the edge over Marinelli at this point.

You can if you want to. They're wrestling in different brackets. 165 is a much better weight.

 

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

You can if you want to. They're wrestling in different brackets. 165 is a much better weight.

 

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Question never was what was the better weight. It was about the specific path followed to their title.

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Question never was what was the better weight. It was about the specific path followed to their title.
It was about toughest path, which implies the best wrestlers beaten. If you want to talk who beat the most high places, go for it. That's just math though.

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3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

It was about toughest path, which implies the best wrestlers beaten. If you want to talk who beat the most high places, go for it. That's just math though.

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Nothing was implied. I'm making an objective observation, while yours is subjective and theoretical, just like scribe said.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Places are results. The rest is theory. 
But they have no context outside of their own weight. If in a group of 16 AAs from 141 and 165, the 8 from 165 are all better than all of the 141s, did the 141 champ have a tougher bracket even though he was beating inferior wrestlers? Im not saying its that stark, and in fact I'd sat Yianni is the best wrestler of all 16, but if you want to debate who beat higher placing wrestlers, that is devoid of context or nuance. It's just the numbers next to their names.

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2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

But they have no context outside of their own weight. If in a group of 16 AAs from 141 and 165, the 8 from 165 are all better than all of the 141s, did the 141 champ have a tougher bracket even though he was beating inferior wrestlers? Im not saying its that stark, and in fact I'd sat Yianni is the best wrestler of all 16, but if you want to debate who beat higher placing wrestlers, that is devoid of context or nuance. It's just the numbers next to their names.

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And?

Objectively with the way the 141 bracket fell for Yanni D he faced the tougher path to his title.

I never said the 1 weigh class's 8 AAs are better than the other. You did though, which is arguable.

You also said Marinelli and Joseph is better than McKenna. Objectively speaking McKenna has accomplished more at the senior level than either of them. I was under the impression that Senior level accomplishments trump age level NCAA accomplishments.

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And?
Objectively with the way the 141 bracket fell for Yanni D he faced the tougher path to his title.
I never said the 1 weigh class's 8 AAs are better than the other. You did though, which is arguable.
You also said Marinelli and Joseph is better than McKenna. Objectively speaking McKenna has accomplished more at the senior level than either of them. I was under the impression that Senior level accomplishments trump age level NCAA accomplishments.
The tougher path at the very least insinuates that he beat the tougher wrestlers, since you're comparing across weights. If you want to say he beat the highest places, go for it. It just doesn't really lend itself to a message board discussion. It's just numbers without context.

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7 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

The tougher path at the very least insinuates that he beat the tougher wrestlers, since you're comparing across weights. If you want to say he beat the highest places, go for it. It just doesn't really lend itself to a message board discussion. It's just numbers without context.

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Ok so Lewis beat Marinelli, Wick and Joseph.

Yanni beat Red, Demas, Eierman and McKenna.

You claim that Marinelli and Joseph is better than McKenna. I think McKenna with his senior level accomplishments is better,

I think Eierman is better than Wick.

I think Red and Demas are better than Coy and McCormack.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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1 minute ago, silverback said:

One and 4 are on the same side of the bracket.    Three and two is on the other side.  Can't beat 4, 3, and 2 in the same tournament.

 

False, you're talking about seeds. I'm talking place finishers.

http://arena.flowrestling.org/event/097e53e8-3ef4-476e-8170-27a58f550378

Take a look.

Yanni beat the 2,3,4 and 8th place finishers on his path to his title.

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1 minute ago, BigTenFanboy said:

False, you're talking about seeds. I'm talking place finishers.

http://arena.flowrestling.org/event/097e53e8-3ef4-476e-8170-27a58f550378

Take a look.

Yanni beat the 2,3,4 and 8th place finishers on his path to his title.

Nobody wins in forum arguments. Nobody changes their mind. 

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Ok so Lewis beat Marinelli, Wick and Joseph.
Yanni beat Red, Demas, Eierman and McKenna.
You claim that Marinelli and Joseph is better than McKenna. I think McKenna with his senior level accomplishments is better,
I think Eierman is better than Wick.
I think Red and Demas are better than Coy and McCormack.
Fine. I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion.

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

Fine. I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion.

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Which part do you disagree with?

Do you think Wick is better than Eierman?

Or the other guys that Lewis wrestled are better than Red or Demas?

What makes Marinelli or Joseph better than McKenna in your opinion?

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Yes to you first two questions. I believe both are more well-rounded folkstyle wrestlers and incredibly hard-nosed and physical (hard hand fighting, heavy on the head), which is difficult to wrestle, plus Joseph is more athletic. McKenna is meat and potatoes and not overly physical.

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I'm siding with Vak on this, Lewis at 165 had the toughest path imo. 141 was a tough weight with some solid talent but 165 was one of the toughest weights once again this season. You can call marinelli a 7th place finisher but remember he beat a previous 3rd place finisher just for the right to aa before falling to this year's third right after that. Lewis went through a gauntlet and came out on top, hes gotta be #1 on this list

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Just now, Perry said:

I'm siding with Vak on this, Lewis at 165 had the toughest path imo. 141 was a tough weight with some solid talent but 165 was one of the toughest weights once again this season. You can call marinelli a 7th place finisher but remember he beat a previous 3rd place finisher just for the right to aa before falling to this year's third right after that. Lewis went through a gauntlet and came out on top, hes gotta be #1 on this list

 

Lewis path was Coy DNP, McCormack DNP, Marinelli 7, Wick 4, and Joseph 2.

Yanni's path was Lipari DNP, Red 8, Demas 4, Eierman 3, McKenna 2

Lewis beat 3 top level wrestlers, Yanni beat 4 objectively facing more "landmines."

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