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embracethegrind

Lee taking down in the 2nd period vs Mueller

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First off- I picked lee to win but after seeing what Mueller did to Rivera I was really nervous. 

Just curious what everyone thought about choosing down at the start of the second. I immediately held my breathe. it worked out but did anyone else feel that it could've been a crucial mistake? 

my fear was, mueller erasing riding time if he kept lee down. then choosing neutral,  possibly scoring the takedown early then riding ot out for the win. 

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22 minutes ago, embracethegrind said:

First off- I picked lee to win but after seeing what Mueller did to Rivera I was really nervous. 

Just curious what everyone thought about choosing down at the start of the second. I immediately held my breathe. it worked out but did anyone else feel that it could've been a crucial mistake? 

my fear was, mueller erasing riding time if he kept lee down. then choosing neutral,  possibly scoring the takedown early then riding ot out for the win. 

That was muellers strategy. Unfortunately for him, Lee was able to get a stalling point as well as another takedown.

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23 minutes ago, embracethegrind said:

First off- I picked lee to win but after seeing what Mueller did to Rivera I was really nervous. 

Just curious what everyone thought about choosing down at the start of the second. I immediately held my breathe. it worked out but did anyone else feel that it could've been a crucial mistake? 

my fear was, mueller erasing riding time if he kept lee down. then choosing neutral,  possibly scoring the takedown early then riding ot out for the win. 

Me too, I was a little surprised Spencer chose down because Spencer just about had him cranked over for nf points at the end of the period. I was thinking ok, take top and finish where you left off.  :D.........Guess he knew what he was doing. The NCAA 125s had fantastic talent this tournament. Congrats to Spencer.

Edited by 2td3nf

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I think Meuller was well on that path. Lee got a little bit of assistance from the ref. Not anything controversial or suspect though. Meuller had ridden him half way though the period. He had a cradle locked up. Granted he wasn’t convincingly trying to turn at all but a stalemate was called. Not sure a stalemate should be called with a pinning combination locked.

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31 minutes ago, embracethegrind said:

First off- I picked lee to win but after seeing what Mueller did to Rivera I was really nervous. 

Just curious what everyone thought about choosing down at the start of the second. I immediately held my breathe. it worked out but did anyone else feel that it could've been a crucial mistake? 

my fear was, mueller erasing riding time if he kept lee down. then choosing neutral,  possibly scoring the takedown early then riding ot out for the win. 

That was big time balls - thought it backfired up until the stalemate on the cradle, as he lost most of his riding time. 

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11 minutes ago, D3UC157 said:

I think Meuller was well on that path. Lee got a little bit of assistance from the ref. Not anything controversial or suspect though. Meuller had ridden him half way though the period. He had a cradle locked up. Granted he wasn’t convincingly trying to turn at all but a stalemate was called. Not sure a stalemate should be called with a pinning combination locked.

It's only a pinning combination if he does something with it.  He sat there for like 45 seconds.

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Totally agree! Whether it worked out or not it was still a big mistake. You don’t put the other guy in his best position. Realistically, Muellers only chance to win was to turn him or wear him out from top. Not sure if it was just being confident or a coaching mistake?

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I think some of it could be familiarity. Lee used to beat up Mueller in HS. Yes, I know, HS, but Mueller's style hasn't changed that much. He was always brutal on top and had that slick throwby as a go-to TD. He's gotten much better at what he does and is clearly a man now, and a very big 125 lb man at that, but I'm sure Lee, who admittedly watches tape on all his opponents, saw nothing he hadn't seen before and was confident he could handle it.

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I think some of it could be familiarity. Lee used to beat up Mueller in HS. Yes, I know, HS, but Mueller's style hasn't changed that much. He was always brutal on top and had that slick throwby as a go-to TD. He's gotten much better at what he does and is clearly a man now, and a very big 125 lb man at that, but I'm sure Lee, who admittedly watches tape on all his opponents, saw nothing he hadn't seen before and was confident he could handle it.
I think the other thing is he's not Lizak on top. You just can't escape, he's not likely to turn you unless you set yourself up

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I dunno...   Mueller had a lot of techs and pins this year, I know the level of competition wasn't great but he clearly was putting people on their backs at a very high clip.
Maybe. I don't want to fight on this. I was shocked he chose down and thought he/they might have blown it.

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nice input. maybe lee saw something while scouting but I was nervous. especially when mueller locked up the cradle. I was screaming nooo. but yeah. as a coach if I saw lee ride him and almost turn him at the end. I wouldve picked top and continue the pressure. if lee scores it puts sooo mich pressure on mueller to score more than riding point. 

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I was pleased with the outcome but was honestly hoping for a more exciting match after seeing Mueller dominate Seabass. Mueller looked like a deer in headlights on the big stage. It's probably that Spencer is just that good, but Mueller just seemed confused, like he had no gameplan, or maybe binge-ate too many hotdogs that afternoon. I couldn't believe it.

Also @wrestlingnerd who ya got next season if Vito and Lee run into each other? I thought Arujau looked really really sharp for a true freshman and can't wait to see the big frosh-to-soph improvement leap.

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Well I thought Lee taking down was a mistake, I would've had him take top and ride Mueller for a couple of more minutes, I believe had he done so, he would've been able to turn Mueller and perhaps get the fall. 

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Pamela Vito is huge for the weight. definitely gave picc a hard time. Rivera controlled him alot better.  Vito did try alot of funky stuff kinda like glory did. young guns trying to make things happen. be Interesting to see if Vito can make the weight. he is young and could be growing. 

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11 hours ago, VakAttack said:

It's only a pinning combination if he does something with it.  He sat there for like 45 seconds.

True, I don’t know why he wasn’t even half heartedly pretending to try turning him. Probably prevents the stalemate.

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9 hours ago, pamela said:

Also @wrestlingnerd who ya got next season if Vito and Lee run into each other? I thought Arujau looked really really sharp for a true freshman and can't wait to see the big frosh-to-soph improvement leap.

So many things can happen between now and then it feels really premature to call a couple of days after NCAAs. If they were to wrestle today, I'd favor Lee because, while Vito's offense is better than Lee's (my opinion), no-flu Lee's defense is significantly better than Vito's and they are on a different level on the mat. VIto would have to score 3 TDs and not give up any himself while not getting turned. Possible, but that wouldn't be my base case.

I have no idea whether Vito plans to go 125 next year anyway. When he cut down, I really thought he'd make the finals. But Rivera proved to be too much right now. I was quite surprised by that, actually. I thought Vito was 2 TDs better than Rivera and if they were to wrestle again today, I would stubbornly still pick Vito. I was not surprised Vito handled Picc. I definitely don't think that was an outlier result.

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1 hour ago, wrestlingnerd said:

So many things can happen between now and then it feels really premature to call a couple of days after NCAAs. If they were to wrestle today, I'd favor Lee because, while Vito's offense is better than Lee's (my opinion), no-flu Lee's defense is significantly better than Vito's and they are on a different level on the mat. VIto would have to score 3 TDs and not give up any himself while not getting turned. Possible, but that wouldn't be my base case.

I have no idea whether Vito plans to go 125 next year anyway. When he cut down, I really thought he'd make the finals. But Rivera proved to be too much right now. I was quite surprised by that, actually. I thought Vito was 2 TDs better than Rivera and if they were to wrestle again today, I would stubbornly still pick Vito. I was not surprised Vito handled Picc. I definitely don't think that was an outlier result.

Me too, I thought Vito would be the big sleeper and make it to the finals.

As far as the betting odds, Vito was in the field at +1500 and so was Mueller.

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11 hours ago, pamela said:

I was pleased with the outcome but was honestly hoping for a more exciting match after seeing Mueller dominate Seabass. Mueller looked like a deer in headlights on the big stage. It's probably that Spencer is just that good, but Mueller just seemed confused, like he had no gameplan, or maybe binge-ate too many hotdogs that afternoon. I couldn't believe it.

Also @wrestlingnerd who ya got next season if Vito and Lee run into each other? I thought Arujau looked really really sharp for a true freshman and can't wait to see the big frosh-to-soph improvement leap.

The difference between Seabass and Spencer is that Spencer didn't give up the slide-by although Mueller tried and he got to the legs quickly. It was a better style matchup on the feet for Spencer I think. 

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