Jump to content
BuckyBadger

Bo Nickal Freestyle Questions

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Bigfan1936 said:

Bo had one of the greatest collegiate careers in history. Better than Taylor’s or Snyder’s for sure. In fact, he is a late move by MM from being in the discussion of 2 or 3 best. I understand favoring those two guys, because they are incredible. Especially Snyder, but why is it crazy to think that a talent like Nickal could transition as fast and effectively as Burroughs? Nickal is one of the best pure athletes we have seen in a while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where do you get the idea Bo's college career is for sure better than Snyder's?  They both went 2,1,1,1.  I am fine giving the edge to Bo based on a couple fewer losses and more matches, but acting like it's not close is silly.  

As for the reason it's dumb to think Nickal can beat Snyder, they are almost the same age and 1 guy has 3 World titles and the other guy got hammered by a USA backup down 2 weights.  If Nickal has serious goals of making the team he will be at 86 in 2020.  If he is patient and focused on 2024, then I'll be happy to see him gain size and experience at 92 or 97.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nickal scored more team points at NCAA's, so objectively his 2,1,1,1 is a little stronger than Snyder's. He also lost fewer matches overall and without checking I am pretty sure he was more dominant too, so objectively his career is also a little stronger.

He even stole Kyle's "moment" by pinning Myles in incredibly dramatic fashion to end the team race last year. 

Edited by TBar1977

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bigfan 1936, Jordan Burroughs has tremendous double leg attack that he can hit from either his feet or knees, JB is also a quick as they come, and can run right around guys, just these two things helped JB quickly become the phenom that he is in international wrestling. Bo, although is very very good does not have the speed of JB, so even though I do believe that one day Bo will be the guy, I don't think he will enjoy the same trajectory that JB or KS has enjoyed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nickal scored more team points at NCAA's, so objectively his 2,1,1,1 is a little stronger than Snyder's. He also lost fewer matches overall and without checking I am pretty sure he was more dominant too, so objectively his career is also a little stronger.
He even stole Kyle's "moment" by pinning Myles in incredibly dramatic fashion to end the team race last year. 
Bo would have not been an All American if he wrestled his true freshman year. Hell, Mike Evans would have beat him.

Snyder won two world title, plus an Olympic title, but you think Bo had a better career?

I personally can't wait for Snyder to tech fall Bo Nickal, hopefully twice.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Nickal scored more team points at NCAA's, so objectively his 2,1,1,1 is a little stronger than Snyder's. He also lost fewer matches overall and without checking I am pretty sure he was more dominant too, so objectively his career is also a little stronger.

He even stole Kyle's "moment" by pinning Myles in incredibly dramatic fashion to end the team race last year. 

That is one objective criteria. Plenty of others support the argument for Snyder.

Snyder was up a weight though. He gave up a ton of size. 

Snyder beat multiple world medalists (Gwiz, Jden, Coon)

Snyder beat better credentialed (Gwiz and Jden are better than anyone Bo has beaten besides maybe Gabe Dean credentials wise)

Snyder was a 4 time Big10 champ. Bo wasn’t. 

Snyder wrestled as a true freshman. Bo took an extra year. If Snyder did red shirt, he would’ve wrestled this season as his senior year to go for 4...

just adding to the conversation. Bo scored way more bonus but that doesn’t mean he objectively had a better college career. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I want Bo to go where he believes the best chance for him to be our #1 this year and next, then if necessary reset for the following cycle.

Snyder is big and brutish, but Nickal does well against big and British.

I favor all of our gold medalists(which includes Snyder) from 74 on up to 97, however I believe his best shot may be at 97.

74-He isn't making 163lbs. No way.

79-He isn't making 174lbs either.

86-He can make 189lbs. I believe this is the 3rd likeliest route. His teammate and mentor holds this spot.

92-202lbs is only a few pounds up of 197, so this is his most immediately available weight class for him. I believe this is where he lands, although I believe Cox is the worst matchup between Taylor, Cox, and Snyder.

97-213lbs is where I want him to go. If he is going for the Oly spot, and allegiances are held, 97 is where he goes to prep for it. If his goal is Oly then he can take a hit first year out on size while bulking.

All this being said I don't know his personal situation(s). He may not care about this cycle so may just give 92 a go and do world's both years or 86 and be happy with 2nd on the team until Taylor hangs it up. He may aim for the 86 spot for the 2024 cycle.

You say that if Bo goes 86 kg he will have to wait for DT to retire and be happy with 2nd until that happens.  Then you talk about him bulking up 25 lbs to take out Snyder like that will be an easier thing to do.  Snyder is quite  a bit younger than DT and has 3 Golds and a silver the last 4 years.  If you think Bo has a better shot at making the team at 97kg you really are clueless.  If Snyder remains healthy the only guy in the US with a realistic chance of knocking him off by 2020 is Cox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bo's not going to go 86kg when DT is there, at least for now.  I believe that's one, if not the, reason he bumped to 197 this year.  Same as Burroughs did when he went from 157 to 165 in prep for the international scene.  I think Bo will test himself at 92kg this year with plans to go 97kg in 2020. Now if 92kg proves to be a rude awakening, they may re-evaluate 86kg.  

Edited by misterc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Snyder had a better NCAA career than bo and it's not even close. Bo was a red shirt and snyder was not when they started. Snyder has wins over multiple worlds medalists and was a multi time world level champ before he graduated. Nickal was getting big brothered by the runner up at the weight below him in the summer while snyder was beating the world's best. Again, it's not close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is one objective criteria. Plenty of others support the argument for Snyder.
Snyder was up a weight though. He gave up a ton of size. 
Snyder beat multiple world medalists (Gwiz, Jden, Coon)
Snyder beat better credentialed (Gwiz and Jden are better than anyone Bo has beaten besides maybe Gabe Dean credentials wise)
Snyder was a 4 time Big10 champ. Bo wasn’t. 
Snyder wrestled as a true freshman. Bo took an extra year. If Snyder did red shirt, he would’ve wrestled this season as his senior year to go for 4...
just adding to the conversation. Bo scored way more bonus but that doesn’t mean he objectively had a better college career. 
Snyder lost to McIntosh at big tens his freshman year.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Perry said:

Snyder had a better NCAA career than bo and it's not even close. Bo was a red shirt and snyder was not when they started. Snyder has wins over multiple worlds medalists and was a multi time world level champ before he graduated. Nickal was getting big brothered by the runner up at the weight below him in the summer while snyder was beating the world's best. Again, it's not close.

Wins over multi world medalists and being big brothered by the runner up at the weight below in the summer has ZERO to do with NCAA career. The only thing that can be factored into an NCAA career is NCAA sanctioned events.

With that said, I will say Snyder beats Nickal and would be absolutely shocked if Nickal pulled off the win. I agree that Snyder has had a much better Wrestling career and it not being close, but not an NCAA career.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, lu1979 said:

You say that if Bo goes 86 kg he will have to wait for DT to retire and be happy with 2nd until that happens.  Then you talk about him bulking up 25 lbs to take out Snyder like that will be an easier thing to do.  Snyder is quite  a bit younger than DT and has 3 Golds and a silver the last 4 years.  If you think Bo has a better shot at making the team at 97kg you really are clueless.  If Snyder remains healthy the only guy in the US with a realistic chance of knocking him off by 2020 is Cox.

No. Not clueless. Styles make matches. Bo us a big move pinner. Snyder has a flat back(meaning he goes to his back he stays there).

I also never said he would bulk to 213lbs. I said he may try that in this shortened cycle so his teammate and mentor(who is older) can prepare without the drama added.

Keep assuming things and you'll get very far in this world. Promise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Wins over multi world medalists and being big brothered by the runner up at the weight below in the summer has ZERO to do with NCAA career. The only thing that can be factored into an NCAA career is NCAA sanctioned events.

With that said, I will say Snyder beats Nickal and would be absolutely shocked if Nickal pulled off the win. I agree that Snyder has had a much better Wrestling career and it not being close, but not an NCAA career.

To be frank I believe Bo's only chance to take Snyder out is to catch him and pin him.

To do that would require a lot of things lining up perfectly, including luck.

To do it twice in three matches? It won't happen.

I am not here advocating that he will beat Snyder. I am simply stating that right now through this cycle his best chance at 97kg(213lbs). Cox is a horrible matchup for him and I believe being teammates has factored into his decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Snyder’s and Nickals  NCAA careers are absolutely irrelevant at this point moving forward. They were both great college wrestlers. Bo  was generally a more dominant college wrestler. And most will admit that if he had not gotten cocky and sloppy his red shirt freshman year in the finals he would’ve been a  4X champ.  But again the college results don’t matter anymore. 

Im a PSU fan And I have no issue admitting that if Bo were to go up to 97kg Snyder would kill him right now. And do so easily.  Too strong and too experienced.  At 92kg it would be closer but Cox would be too experienced and a little too strong for Bo. I don’t see Bo going down to 86kg at all. 

At the same age or point in their careers you cannot compare Snyder to Nickal . Bo has not had anywhere  near the freestyle success at the same age as Snyder. In large part because he has not focused on it nearly as much as Snyder did.   I consider Bo To be a two year or so project at the international level before he is ready to compete at the top levels and challenge the established guys.  A lot of it will depend on how quickly he is able to gain good weight. 

Edited by AIW-HS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

No. Not clueless. Styles make matches. Bo us a big move pinner. Snyder has a flat back(meaning he goes to his back he stays there).

I also never said he would bulk to 213lbs. I said he may try that in this shortened cycle so his teammate and mentor(who is older) can prepare without the drama added.

Keep assuming things and you'll get very far in this world. Promise.

This is idiotic.  How many times has Snyder been pinned?  He got pinned by Sadulaev this year and by Gadsen his freshman year.  When considering their resumes and styles and opponents there is no way you can logically conclude that Snyder is more likely to be pinned than Taylor.  

If Nickal wants to go 97 (or 92) to leave the field open for Taylor that's great for them.  But to pretend it's because he has a better shot at 97 or that he matches up well with Snyder is just plain dumb.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bo has no good options. Period.

Realistically 2020 is probably Taylor’s last shot at Olympic gold and Cael will rightfully do whatever it takes to make sure Bo doesn’t play spoiler at 86...even though I think it’s pretty obvious 86 is where Bo belongs (for now). 

The US has a recent or reigning world champ at 79, 86, 92, and 97...so Bo’s decision is the epitome of “pick your poison.” If I’m Bo the poison I’d pick for 2019 is Cox at 92. Not a good matchup but in my opinion it’s much better than going up another weight to challenge Snyder in 2019. I think his best path to Tokyo is to go 92 this year on his way to scaling up to 97 for 2020. Truthfully I don’t see Bo beating Cox at 92 this year but if he can gain enough good weight over the next year he could challenge Snyder in 2020. 

This may be for another thread but where does Hall go in 2020? Didn’t he say after the last Jr World’s that it was the last time he’d make 74? If that’s the case then I guess what I said about Cael keeping Bo out of Taylor’s way could be moot...since someone else in the PSU room is already gonna be challenging him.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, cjc007 said:

Bo would have not been an All American if he wrestled his true freshman year. Hell, Mike Evans would have beat him.

Snyder won two world title, plus an Olympic title, but you think Bo had a better career?

I personally can't wait for Snyder to tech fall Bo Nickal, hopefully twice.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

The world and Olympic titles illustrate Snyder has a better senior level freestyle career, which is stating the obvious.

The reasons I gave above objectively show that Nickal had the better college folkstyle career.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, boconnell said:

This is idiotic.  How many times has Snyder been pinned?  He got pinned by Sadulaev this year and by Gadsen his freshman year.  When considering their resumes and styles and opponents there is no way you can logically conclude that Snyder is more likely to be pinned than Taylor.  

If Nickal wants to go 97 (or 92) to leave the field open for Taylor that's great for them.  But to pretend it's because he has a better shot at 97 or that he matches up well with Snyder is just plain dumb.  

What are you on? I never said he got pinned all the time. I said he has a flat back. All that means is every time I have seen him go to his back he has not gotten off of it.

It amazes me how butthurt so many people get when someone objectifies someone they like.

I like Snyder too. He is my 2nd favorite behind Dake in US MFS.  I see no problem with what I stated. I never said he had a 50% chance at catching him, or even 25% or 0.000005%. All I said was his best chance of making it as our #1 right now is a big move(twice). You don't hit big moves against Cox(slip'n'slide) and he won't go 86kg.

Therefore 97kg is his best shot.

If you, or anyone, takes offense to that, then I apologize. It weren't my intention to impugn your honor. I hope you'll be able to sleep tonight.

Edited by nhs67

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, nhs67 said:

What are you on? I never said he got pinned all the time. I said he has a flat back. All that means is every time I have seen him go to his back he has not gotten off of it.

It amazes me how butthurt so many people get when someone objectifies someone they like.

I like Snyder too. He is my 2nd favorite behind Dake in US MFS.  I see no problem with what J stated. I never said he had a 50% chance at catching him, or even 25% or 0.000005%. All I said was his best chance of making it as our #1 right now is a big move(twice). You don't hit big moves against Cox(slip'n'slide) and he won't go 86kg.

Therefore 97kg is his best shot.

If you, or anyone, takes offense to that, then I apologize. It weren't my intention to impugn your honor. I hope you'll be able to sleep tonight.

When you say his best chance is 97 you are saying he has a better chance to beat Snyder than Taylor or Cox.  When you say it's his best chance because he won't go 86 like you said in this post it makes much more sense. 

That's why I said if Bo is going 97 to leave the field open for Taylor then good for them, but if he's going 97 because he has the best chance then it's absurd. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, boconnell said:

When you say his best chance is 97 you are saying he has a better chance to beat Snyder than Taylor or Cox.  When you say it's his best chance because he won't go 86 like you said in this post it makes much more sense. 

That's why I said if Bo is going 97 to leave the field open for Taylor then good for them, but if he's going 97 because he has the best chance then it's absurd. 

If there is no chance he goes 86kg then that puts the chance at of him being our #1 there at 0%.

Say he splits 92 and 97 50/50. I don't see him beating either Cox or Snyder. Eventually he may be able to catch one. That won't be Cox. Ergo his best chance of beating either of our #1 grapplers that he may face is Snyder.

I'm sorry if I went in circles and seemed confusing. Barring injury to Taylor I absolutely do not see him going for 86kg.

 

I believe his best chance is to go straight for 97kg to prep for 2020. I don't see a way he beats Cox right now, at all. He has a small, very small, chance at beating Snyder.

Getting to Snyder or Cox is a different story altogether. I don't see it in either case this year.

All of this being said, I hope we see him give it a go and not take the ZR route. He needs to prep for next year and that begins now.

Edited by nhs67

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

If there is no chance he goes 86kg then that puts the chance at of him being our #1 there at 0%.

Say he splits 92 and 97 50/50. I don't see him beating either Cox or Snyder. Eventually he may be able to catch one. That won't be Cox. Ergo his best chance of beating either of our #1 grapplers that he may face is Snyder.

I'm sorry if I went in circles and seemed confusing. Barring injury to Taylor I absolutely do not see him going for 86kg.

 

I believe his best chance is to go straight for 97kg to prep for 2020. I don't see a way he beats Cox right now, at all. He has a small, very small, chance at beating Snyder.

Getting to Snyder or Cox is a different story altogether. I don't see it in either case this year.

All of this being said, I hope we see him give it a go and not take the ZR route. He needs to prep for next year and that begins now.

His chance of throwing Snyder is no higher than his chance of throwing Cox.  Snyder has spent 4 years dealing with the best Russians who all can throw like Bo and they are all much bigger (and likely chemistry aided in some cases).  Nickal is not throwing Snyder, especially in a match where Snyder knows he can just pick him apart with low risk stuff and avoid the one in a million.  

Against Cox he has a much better chance.  Cox is excellent and moves great laterally and keeps distance with his arms, but he wrestles close matches and he cannot get to his own offense on command like Snyder can.  If you get a lead on Cox (very tough) you can probably keep it because he isn't an offensive dynamo.  If you get a lead against Snyder he just goes earlier and buries you with points.  If Snyder so desired I bet he could score a TF with pushouts against Bo without ever putting himself in danger of a counter.  The size difference is at least 10% real body weight.  That's an insurmountable disadvantage at that level.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Perry said:

Snyder had a better NCAA career than bo and it's not even close. Bo was a red shirt and snyder was not when they started. Snyder has wins over multiple worlds medalists and was a multi time world level champ before he graduated. Nickal was getting big brothered by the runner up at the weight below him in the summer while snyder was beating the world's best. Again, it's not close.

I also watched Kyle Snyder repeatedly get taken down by Nick Nevills and only beat Derek White 6-3, while taking a loss as a senior.  Who did anything similar to Bo?  Bo's third string back up went up to heavyweight and beat a much improved Derek White by major.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well after thinking about this a little more, I am pretty sure we might not see Nickal become the number one guy until after 2020. I think that it will take him a while to develop enough to have a realistic chance to dethrone Taylor, Cox, or Snyder. I know David Taylor said that he plans to wrestle for a couple of more cycles but he is 28, and may be 30(ish) by the time the 2020 Olympics come around, so who knows, he might move on to coaching at that point, especially if he is odd man out. And even though I haven't heard much about J'Den's plans, but based on things he's said in the past, I could see him calling it a career especially if he gets a Olympic Gold in 2020. As far as Kyle goes, he said he wanted to wrestle well into his 30's, so as long as he is successful, I think he will do his absolute best to try and chase down Baumgartner. 

Speaking of retirements though, I do think that Jordan Burroughs calls in a career after the 2020 Olympics. Which would open that spot to a whole host of people. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Housebuye said:

That is one objective criteria. Plenty of others support the argument for Snyder.

Snyder was up a weight though. He gave up a ton of size. 

Snyder beat multiple world medalists (Gwiz, Jden, Coon)

Snyder beat better credentialed (Gwiz and Jden are better than anyone Bo has beaten besides maybe Gabe Dean credentials wise)

Snyder was a 4 time Big10 champ. Bo wasn’t. 

Snyder wrestled as a true freshman. Bo took an extra year. If Snyder did red shirt, he would’ve wrestled this season as his senior year to go for 4...

just adding to the conversation. Bo scored way more bonus but that doesn’t mean he objectively had a better college career. 

It was easier to post the message House put than typing it a second time.   I would also add that he wrestled Gadson too.  Second on the USA team. Which was one if his loses.  And while Bo may have less losses I think other than Snyder's true freshman loss to MM, I think all of his losses are to USA senior team representatives. 

In Bo's defense he did have Martin...  And despite his loss in the semi's, I think is an eventually senior USA representative if he goes that direction.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×