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Bo Nickal Freestyle Questions

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If Nickal does not like cutting weight why wouldn't he do well without it? Working like a pro at technique to hone it, could he do what Sadulaev does? Become technically superior to most of the competition while being comfortable at his natural weight? Couple that with more strength training to become a complete wrestler and work like John Smith on perfecting his game?

Maybe do what Dave Schultz did and go to Russia and such to train with the top guys and learn on the mat with them?

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15 hours ago, nhs67 said:

If there is no chance he goes 86kg then that puts the chance at of him being our #1 there at 0%.

Say he splits 92 and 97 50/50. I don't see him beating either Cox or Snyder. Eventually he may be able to catch one. That won't be Cox. Ergo his best chance of beating either of our #1 grapplers that he may face is Snyder.

I'm sorry if I went in circles and seemed confusing. Barring injury to Taylor I absolutely do not see him going for 86kg.

 

I believe his best chance is to go straight for 97kg to prep for 2020. I don't see a way he beats Cox right now, at all. He has a small, very small, chance at beating Snyder.

Getting to Snyder or Cox is a different story altogether. I don't see it in either case this year.

All of this being said, I hope we see him give it a go and not take the ZR route. He needs to prep for next year and that begins now.

Your logic is based on the assumption that Bo will not challenge DT because they are friends/teammates.  Let's say Bo goes 92 kg this year and does great - he beats out J'Den for the spot and wins a Gold medal at the Worlds while having a natural walking around weight of 210 to 205 lbs. (I'm guessing that's about right) If that were to happen then Bo would have to decide where he was going to try to compete for a chance at an Olympic gold medal which is the pinnacle of his chosen sport.   If the choice is between moving up to compete as a seriously undersized 97 kg guy and attempt to go through both Snyder and Sadulaev and going against his former coach at a weight that he is perfectly sized foe I expect he will make the same choice B Slay did in 2000 and choose to compete against his coach and mentor. I expect him to go 92 kg this year and time will tell after that.

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4 hours ago, lu1979 said:

Your logic is based on the assumption that Bo will not challenge DT because they are friends/teammates.  Let's say Bo goes 92 kg this year and does great - he beats out J'Den for the spot and wins a Gold medal at the Worlds while having a natural walking around weight of 210 to 205 lbs. (I'm guessing that's about right) If that were to happen then Bo would have to decide where he was going to try to compete for a chance at an Olympic gold medal which is the pinnacle of his chosen sport.   If the choice is between moving up to compete as a seriously undersized 97 kg guy and attempt to go through both Snyder and Sadulaev and going against his former coach at a weight that he is perfectly sized foe I expect he will make the same choice B Slay did in 2000 and choose to compete against his coach and mentor. I expect him to go 92 kg this year and time will tell after that.

My logic is that he will not choose to compete against his mentor on his mentors final go for the Olympics. You are correct. I am also correct with that logic.

Barring injury or another massive surprise coming through (similar to the year Snyder won his first gold), Nickal will not go the same weight as Taylor for 2020.

Now if Nickal does go 92 and fails miserably by going 0-2 at the Trials that changes things as well, and I would also consider that to be in the massive surprise category.

What I think we'll see is he will go 92 for the US Open and see how he feels there. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go 97 at the WTT.

Is it possible for him to qualify in both weights? Since he is the Natty Champ at 197, he gets to pick which weight he wishes to for right? If he wins the Open at 92 does that make it so he cannot go 97?

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6 hours ago, lu1979 said:

Your logic is based on the assumption that Bo will not challenge DT because they are friends/teammates.  Let's say Bo goes 92 kg this year and does great - he beats out J'Den for the spot and wins a Gold medal at the Worlds while having a natural walking around weight of 210 to 205 lbs. (I'm guessing that's about right) If that were to happen then Bo would have to decide where he was going to try to compete for a chance at an Olympic gold medal which is the pinnacle of his chosen sport.   If the choice is between moving up to compete as a seriously undersized 97 kg guy and attempt to go through both Snyder and Sadulaev and going against his former coach at a weight that he is perfectly sized foe I expect he will make the same choice B Slay did in 2000 and choose to compete against his coach and mentor. I expect him to go 92 kg this year and time will tell after that.

Remember that Cael did not go down and challenge his friend Varner when he made his 'comeback'. Word was he could still take Varner at the time.

If he had I think we would have seen him with new hardware around his neck.

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If Nickal doesn’t go 86 kg in 2020, it’s because he knows DT will beat him. Nobody in their right mind would rather face Snyder in a best of 3 than DT unless he is confident DT will prevail and Snyder, as daunting as he is, remains an unknown. The respect for mentor concept seems like an extreme stretch. 

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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1 hour ago, WillieBoy said:

Remember that Cael did not go down and challenge his friend Varner when he made his 'comeback'. Word was he could still take Varner at the time.

If he had I think we would have seen him with new hardware around his neck.

You mean Cael did not compete up at 97kg - he went back down to 84 kg where he competed previously and therefore was not in Varner's weight. My guess is that Bo will compete at 92kg this year and at 86kg in 2020 but until we see what he does it is all idle speculation. 

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On 3/29/2019 at 2:02 PM, TBar1977 said:

The world and Olympic titles illustrate Snyder has a better senior level freestyle career, which is stating the obvious.

The reasons I gave above objectively show that Nickal had the better college folkstyle career.

Did DT have a better season than Dake his junior year?  He was in the same bracket and scored more points! Not a good criteria to compare careers.

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35 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Did DT have a better season than Dake his junior year?  He was in the same bracket and scored more points! Not a good criteria to compare careers.

When you add his team points to everything else the separation gets wider, so it makes sense in context.

Win percentage favors Bo Nickal. 

Fewer losses ( 3 vs. 5) favors Bo Nickal.

Career bonus percentage by a mile favors Bo Nickal. 

Throw in the team points which also favor Bo Nickal. 

Like I said before, objectively Bo had the better college career. 

Kyle has the better free style career.

Edited by TBar1977

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1 hour ago, pamela said:

Not gonna lie, there's nothing more I'd like to see than Bo Nickal at Worlds awkwardly helping Sadulaev up by the waist after a match.

This would be amazing.

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On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 9:26 AM, Plasmodium said:

It makes no sense for Bo Nickal to sacrifice one of his (at most!) two shots at the Olympics out of respect for his teammate.   He might move up  if he knows he cant beat him, but he wont move up because he doesnt want to compete with him.

^^^^^^  This right here.  The mentor stuff is BS.  Why would anybody in their right mind put their dreams on hold just because a friend/mentor is competing?  Bo has at best 2 Olympic cycles before he's done.  Makes no sense to bump up to face Snyder and give up a ton of size.  92 sounds right for this year and 86 in 2020.

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So him going 92 or 97 equates to putting his dream(s) on hold?

That string of logic is a farce.

Unless he gets ragdolled this summer at 92 or 97, whichever weight he goes, he will not be going 86 this cycle.

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6 hours ago, wildcatfan1992 said:

^^^^^^  This right here.  The mentor stuff is BS.  Why would anybody in their right mind put their dreams on hold just because a friend/mentor is competing?  Bo has at best 2 Olympic cycles before he's done.  Makes no sense to bump up to face Snyder and give up a ton of size.  92 sounds right for this year and 86 in 2020.

Isn't that a reason why people are saying Spencer Lee won't challenge for the 57kg World Team spot? Look at what happened with Gilman and Tony Ramos when they were both at HWC and facing off at WTT.

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http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/26424694/more-college-wrestlers-fighting-on

In an ESPN article today Nickal and his family is quoted as saying he'll for sure go MMA after 2020.  That changes all of these equations quite a bit.  Either...

1. He goes 86 because he only has one shot.

2. He goes 92 and if he gets beat this summer he might walk a year early. 

3. He goes straight to 97 to find out if he's close now since he only has a 2 year window.

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12 hours ago, pamela said:

Isn't that a reason why people are saying Spencer Lee won't challenge for the 57kg World Team spot? Look at what happened with Gilman and Tony Ramos when they were both at HWC and facing off at WTT.

What happened with Ramos and Gilman is both guys went for the spot.  Neither guy said I'm not doing it because he's my teammate.  

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17 hours ago, nhs67 said:

So him going 92 or 97 equates to putting his dream(s) on hold?

That string of logic is a farce.

Unless he gets ragdolled this summer at 92 or 97, whichever weight he goes, he will not be going 86 this cycle.

It's putting it on hold in the sense that he may be going a weight that is not optimal for him to succeed at.  I personally don't feel that he's likely to be our rep no matter what weight he is at, but IMO he should go and challenge DT as that may be his best shot.  Surely he knows DT well enough to be able to keep the match close and hopefully hit something big to get a win.

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Someone posted an ESPN article on the College Wrestling board with some tidbits about Bo and some of the other guys at NCAAs. 

(EDIT: oops, it's the same article that was posted earlier above - sorry about that @boconnell)

Looks like he plans on taking his shot at the 2020 Olympics before starting a career in MMA. So we’ve got two freestyle cycles of Nickal to enjoy. Askren thinks Bo’s chances of making the ‘20 Olympic team are slim (probably true) and that he’d be a great MMA fighter, and should consider moving on sooner rather than later. I don’t know much about mixed martial arts, but I cannot for the life of me imagine Bo competing in the octagon rn.

Edited by pamela

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6 hours ago, pamela said:

Looks like he plans on taking his shot at the 2020 Olympics before starting a career in MMA. So we’ve got two freestyle cycles of Nickal to enjoy.

Nope, that would be one cycle - just this upcoming OTT and that's it. 

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On 3/29/2019 at 11:18 AM, BigTenFanboy said:

Wins over multi world medalists and being big brothered by the runner up at the weight below in the summer has ZERO to do with NCAA career. The only thing that can be factored into an NCAA career is NCAA sanctioned events.

With that said, I will say Snyder beats Nickal and would be absolutely shocked if Nickal pulled off the win. I agree that Snyder has had a much better Wrestling career and it not being close, but not an NCAA career.

Being that this is all opinion, can't we factor in what we want to factor in?  Some people only wonder to factor in NCAA sanctioned matches, others want to factor in what the athlete did competitively while in college (the original post in this Bo/Snyder career debate said college career, did not specify to NCAA folkstyle matches).  When we're splitting hairs between two 4x finalists, 3x champs, bringing the world and olympic golds while in college certainly is logical in an opinion debate, who's to say its not allowed?

Edited by Lurker

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Well we will get a peak how he does this week against Hayden. Who looked pretty good 

Good test what level Bo is. I think he is right there with all of them. He has been nothing less then spectacular. He's freaky since he does not look strong. Has the Askren look.

Frank C

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Aside for Zillmer and Moore(who has recency against him) I don't see anyone he won't toss here.

Zillmer gives us an interesting look due to his ability to go straight Greco on him.

Nickal will show he's arrived.

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