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Sam Stoll vs Mason Parris- Stalling on the Edge

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Just now, VakAttack said:

LOL.  He didn't shoot that way.  He took his arm out and tried to create offense that way.  Which is why it's stalling when he (or others) do it.  It's not Desanto's fault if you can't handfight.

It isn't stalling. Keep trying, though. 

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9 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

It isn't stalling. Keep trying, though. 

You still haven't offered anything substantive.  You just keep saying your opinion over and over again.  Not that this is surprising from you.

Edited by VakAttack

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22 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

You still haven't offered anything substantive.  You just keep saying your opinion over and over again.  Not that this is surprising from you.

Neither have you, Vak. You always think who ever is wrestling a good Iowa wrestler is stalling. How is that substantive?

Here are some recent examples from the Iowa camp:

Tony Nelson's spiral ride is stalling.

Delgado's far ankle pass is just stalling. 

Jason Tsirtsis never initiated any attacks on Sorenson, he's stalling!

Zain's leg ride is stalling.

Kyle Dake against Montel Marion. Stalling!

Ethan Lizak's leg ride is stalling.

Matt Brown grinding Mike Evans head into the mat but not turning him is stalling. Never mind nobody gets turned when Stoll shoves a guy straight off the mat. That guy MUST BE STALLING. But its OK for guys like Mike Evans or your 165 in the DT years to just lay on the mat, in those situations it is the top guy who is stalling. 

Nico Megaludis, Nathan Tomasello and Tyler Graff just blocking off, playing the edge and circling back. STALLING!

Mark Hall's side ride while pinching the ankle with the knee is stalling. 

Jimmy Gulibon's knee pinch of the leg while riding is stalling. 

I could go on and on. It is always something or someone, and the victim is always the Iowa guy. That Gable statue has infected your entire fanbase into thinking everyone is stalling on your guys when they are not. 

I'd like to invite fans of other teams to post here about all the times Iowa fans have complained that something one of their wrestlers was doing was claimed by them to be stalling. Probably not enough bandwidth for all that. 

Edited by TBar1977

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Great points OP, but your whole argument is predicated on the notion that Stoll's constant pushing is somehow "wrestling" or "attempting offense." It is not. Pushing in itself is not an offensive move, nor is pushing someone off the mat an attempt to score. It is avoiding wrestling and therefore stalling in itself. 

The act of pushing to create pressure and then taking it away to set up a shot or snap is offense. Pushing non-stop is not. 

Edited by ptz305

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1 minute ago, ptz305 said:

Great points OP, but your whole argument is predicated on the notion that Stoll's constant pushing is somehow "wrestling" or "attempting offense." It is not. Pushing in itself is not an offensive move, nor is pushing someone off the mat an attempt to score. It is avoiding wrestling and therefore stalling in itself. 

You get it. 

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Just now, TBar1977 said:

Neither have you, Vak. You always think who ever is wrestling a good Iowa wrestler is stalling. How is that substantive?

Here are some recent examples from the Iowa camp:

Tony Nelson's spiral ride is stalling.

Delgado's far ankle pass is just stalling. 

Zain rather's leg ride is stalling.

Ethan Lizak's leg ride is stalling.

Matt Brown grinding Mike Evans head into the mat but not turning him is stalling. Never mind nobody gets turned when Stoll shoves a guy off the mat. That guy MUST BE STALLING. But its OK for guys like Mike Evans or your 165 in the DT years to just lay on the mat, in those situations it is the top guy who is stalling. 

Nico Megaludis, Nathan Tomasello and Tyler Graff just blocking off, playing the edge and circling back. STALLING!

I could go on and on. It is always something or someone, and the victim is always the Iowa guy. 

LOL.  You keep pushing this BS strawman, but I already addressed your baseless accusation.  Picc and Seabass didn't stall when they beat Spencer this season.  At this last tournament, I didn't feel like anybody stalled against murin while beating him.  Nobody stalled against Warner.  Emory Parker didn't stall against Wilcke.  Jordan Wood and Hemida didn't stall against Stoll.  Marstella didn't stall against Marinelli.  Pantaleo didn't stall against Kaleb Young, neither did Berger.  Neither Degen nor Jordan stalled against Lugo.

If I feel someone is stalling, I say it, and I say why.  But I don't say that everybody who beats Iowa was stalling, it's just a strawman you and others like you throw up to try to undermine the point.

As to putting out a reasoning, I most certainly have put out my reasoning as to why RBY putting his hand behind his back or on his hip is stalling.  And your response is just "it's not stalling."

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6 minutes ago, ptz305 said:

Great points OP, but your whole argument is predicated on the notion that Stoll's constant pushing is somehow "wrestling" or "attempting offense." It is not. Pushing in itself is not an offensive move, nor is pushing someone off the mat an attempt to score. It is avoiding wrestling and therefore stalling in itself. 

The act of pushing to create pressure and then taking it away to set up a shot or snap is offense. Pushing non-stop is not. 

This would make sense if any time Parris pushed back he didn't get taken down or nearly taken down pretty quickly.

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2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

This would make sense if any time Parris pushed back he didn't get taken down or nearly taken down pretty quickly.

Yeah, but you wanted Cassar dinged for more stalling vs Steveson, and in that match the minute Steveson tried to wrestle Cassar took him down, not the other way around. Your one match doesn't making pushing the opposing wrestler OOB to not be stalling. It is just the circumstances in that one match. There are many examples that work against your argument. In addition to Cassar v. Steveson, the Pletcher Desanto match recently being another one of them. 

Edited by TBar1977

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2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

The fact that Wood was able to stay in the center of the mat has nothing to do with Parris. Nothing at all. It  is a red herring. 

Pushing is pushing, but its not wrestling and you don't reward less athletic wrestlers simply because they can push someone in a straight line. And when a wrestler does this and actually LOOKS FOR a stalling call, that tells you all you need to know about which wrestler is truly stalling. It is the guy pushing. 

I agree you don't reward less athletic wrestlers for not trying to score.  

You also don't reward smaller wrestlers for refusing to engage and going out of bounds repeatedly.  

Stoll was perfectly officiated in the NCAA Tournament.  He received stalling when guys ran and didn't when they wrestled.  When they wrestled he mostly lost.  This isn't hard to figure out.  If you can watch that match and say Parris was trying to score while running away, you are truly hopeless.  

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5 minutes ago, boconnell said:

I agree you don't reward less athletic wrestlers for not trying to score.  

You also don't reward smaller wrestlers for refusing to engage and going out of bounds repeatedly.  

Stoll was perfectly officiated in the NCAA Tournament.  He received stalling when guys ran and didn't when they wrestled.  When they wrestled he mostly lost.  This isn't hard to figure out.  If you can watch that match and say Parris was trying to score while running away, you are truly hopeless.  

I never stated Parris was trying to score in the specific position he was in, but I did not view what he was doing as running either. Stoll is just too big for him, and Stoll is far, far better at pushing than he is. Stoll could have tried to shoot instead of push, he could have tried to arm drag from his russian tie, of get to a high single from that tie. But all he did for a long while was push. It goes both ways. 

Desanto tried the same thing with Pletcher, and when Desanto was unable to get away with just pushing, because the official warned him, the match changed in Pletcher's favor. Not Desanto's favor. 

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step out solves all of this...

running straight backwards because you are incapable of dealing with or creating your own forward pressure is not wrestling... it is running plain and simple... there is an out of bounds line for a reason... because that is where the field of competition ends... if you can not avoid going out of bounds then you should penalized, plain and simple...

again, anyone care to offer an opinion of why wrestlers all around the world outside of the US have figured out how to stand their ground or at the very least circle away from out of bounds?

 

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1 minute ago, LJB said:

step out solves all of this...

running straight backwards because you are incapable of dealing with or creating your own forward pressure is not wrestling... it is running plain and simple... there is an out of bounds line for a reason... because that is where the field of competition ends... if you can not avoid going out of bounds then you should penalized, plain and simple...

again, anyone care to offer an opinion of why wrestlers all around the world outside of the US have figured out how to stand their ground or at the very least circle away from out of bounds?

Senior wrestlers at world's/ They are the best wrestlers, maybe that's why. 

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2 hours ago, LJB said:

step out solves all of this...

Parris pealing the top hand of the 2 on 1 and circling in would, too.

Allowing himself to be shoved off the mat and dinged for stalling was, more or less, the "step out".

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so, no one outside of the senior level has figured out how to circle?

do you realize how stupid a thing that is to say?

no, plenty of wrestlers outside of the senior level have learned how to stand their ground, fight, create their own offense from an opponents forward pressure, and wrestle within the field of competition...

folk rewards not wrestling... kids learn that running to the line allows them safety from having to actually wrestle... institute a step out rule and our young wrestlers will learn how to do this as well...

 

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1 minute ago, PSUSMC said:

Parris pealing the top hand of the 2 on 1 and circling in would, too.

Allowing himself to be shoved off the mat and dinged for stalling was, more or less, the "step out".

it absolutely was not because stoll was called for "stalling" while doing the exact same thing that got parris dinged... it was insanity...

why would anyone not want a step out rule?

it would solve all this silliness and create better wrestlers...

the only reason not to do it is the ignorant mind set of resisting change just for the sake of not changing...

a fool's reasoning...

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3 hours ago, Dr. Novak said:

Wood from Lehigh wrestled Stoll in the quarters and didn't give an inch.  Most of the match was wrestled in the center circle.  Parris was clearly stalling and without the new push out rule he would have simply gone out of bounds every 20 seconds.

Two points to offer for this discussion:

  1. Wood was strong enough to hold center against Stoll, so he was able avoid getting called for stalling due to Stoll's 'push 'em out of bounds' pseudo-wrestling strategy.
  2. During Wood's 3/4 bout v Steveson, Gable got under both Wood's arms and walked Wood off the mat.  Steveson's height advantage prevented Wood from being able to get his feet firmly on the mat to offer any resistance.  What was the call?  Stalling on Wood.  Steveson clearly took the action off the mat, but Wood got called for the stall.

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8 minutes ago, LJB said:

so, no one outside of the senior level has figured out how to circle?

do you realize how stupid a thing that is to say?

no, plenty of wrestlers outside of the senior level have learned how to stand their ground, fight, create their own offense from an opponents forward pressure, and wrestle within the field of competition...

folk rewards not wrestling... kids learn that running to the line allows them safety from having to actually wrestle... institute a step out rule and our young wrestlers will learn how to do this as well...

 

One way it does this is by allowing guys to get a pointy simply for pushing, not wrestling. And I never stated that no one outside senior level wrestlers knows how to circle. 

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LJB,

You have to realize that TBar is clueless most of the time and his hatred for Iowa blocks any rational view he has for wrestling.  His post about RBY says it all, he does not think what RBY did against DeSanto is stalling, yes it is!  RBY clearly wanted nothing to do with DeSanto either time they wrestled this year and putting your arm behind your back is telling the Ref. that you do not want to create your own offense.

Now to Stoll, It is your job as the opposing wrestler to NOT let Stoll push you out.  Not very many wrestlers are good at doing that and the Step Out would change that.  Stoll’s opponents know if they push back into Stoll, they will most likely lose the battle.  Yes, Stoll is boring as all get out as a wrestler most of the time but lets not try and act like he didn’t created his own offense either.  His style was push into a wrestler and when they push back, take them down.  It is the other wrestlers job to not let Stoll push him.

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15 minutes ago, BHawk91 said:

LJB,

You have to realize that TBar is clueless most of the time and his hatred for Iowa blocks any rational view he has for wrestling.  His post about RBY says it all, he does not think what RBY did against DeSanto is stalling, yes it is!  RBY clearly wanted nothing to do with DeSanto either time they wrestled this year and putting your arm behind your back is telling the Ref. that you do not want to create your own offense.

Now to Stoll, It is your job as the opposing wrestler to NOT let Stoll push you out.  Not very many wrestlers are good at doing that and the Step Out would change that.  Stoll’s opponents know if they push back into Stoll, they will most likely lose the battle.  Yes, Stoll is boring as all get out as a wrestler most of the time but lets not try and act like he didn’t created his own offense either.  His style was push into a wrestler and when they push back, take them down.  It is the other wrestlers job to not let Stoll push him.

Objectively, as I illustrated above, what you are claiming is FALSE. 

1. RBY (not Desanto) initiated the first period action that led to Desanto's standing Merkle in first 30 seconds. 

2. RBY (not Desanto) was on the verge of scoring at the end of period 1. That was on Desanto's one and only shot in the match. 

3. RBY (not Desanto) nearly scored during period 3.

4. RBY (not Desanto) initiated the action that led to Desanto's score in Period 3. Good on Desanto for winning that position and the match. No problem. You seem to want more than the win. Guessing you are concerned about next year. Only thing that makes sense. 

Also, the two wrestlers were engaged in a tie up for virtually the entire match except where the beginning of the 2nd and 3rd periods is concerned. The one and only time the action went OOB in the entire match, Desanto lifted and ran RBY to the edge. RBY stopped it, but it eventually went OOB 15 seconds later. 

No way anyone can claim with a straight face that RBY didn't engage Desanto. Hogwash. 

Edited by TBar1977

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5 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

One way it does this is by allowing guys to get a pointy simply for pushing, not wrestling. And I never stated that no one outside senior level wrestlers knows how to circle. 

your only explanation for other wrestlers outside of this country knowing how to avoid going straight back out of bounds was because they were senior level wrestlers... the best in the world...

you really are very average in your thinking... some would say a dummy...

 

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15 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

One way it does this is by allowing guys to get a pointy simply for pushing, not wrestling. And I never stated that no one outside senior level wrestlers knows how to circle. 

putting your hands on someone, controlling them, moving them where you want them to go is absolutely wrestling... if those "wrestlers" being physically controlled by their opponents have the juevos to do anything other than back straight out to avoid the pressure then they would... as evidenced by the many other wrestlers who do...

i am really beginning to beleive that you really are just an iowa hate monger, because, you offer nothing else to the discussion...

dummy

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12 minutes ago, LJB said:

your only explanation for other wrestlers outside of this country knowing how to avoid going straight back out of bounds was because they were senior level wrestlers... the best in the world...

you really are very average in your thinking... some would say a dummy...

 

Iowa fans who don't like anyone not agreeing with them. Some would call you a douchebag, LJB, so I guess we are even. 

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