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NJDan

Is Yianni the Second Best Ever?

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51 minutes ago, scribe said:

I am sympathetic to the McKenna match officiating, but at least we have a straight up td by Yianni in SV to settle on. One can try to argue that Mckenna shouldn't have had to wrestle in SV, but he could have just taken it to Yianni there.

I agree so much with this.  The officiating in that match was bad.  No question about it.  But Yianni scored a zero controversy TD in OT.  It doesn't erase the bad officiating, but that's the best ending you can hope for after officiating screwups.  I feel the same way about Suriano-Fix.  Bad officiating but Suriano is the guy who wrestled through the bad officiating and scored a TD.  Officiating mistakes can happen but I much prefer when they occur during a match instead of to end a match.  We were lucky that both of those matches were decided with wrestling.  

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15 hours ago, NJDan said:

But is being undefeated in 15 matches, mostly duals, the same as 35-0, while wrestling in three tournaments, plus duals?

Uetake had closer to 20 matches per year, with both a conference tournament and NCAA tournament. He’s also the only wrestler in OkSt history to go undefeated. 

Coupled with an Olympic gold before his junior year, if that’s not enough to get on an all-time list, there really is no point to an all-time list.

Edited by Katie

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14 hours ago, 1032004 said:

In his first 2 years, Yianni has beaten:

Meredith 2x (2-4-2)

Heil (4-1-1)

McKenna 2X (3-3-2) (and I think Yianni won the finals fair and square - I’m of the opinion that it was a makeup call when he should’ve gotten 2 earlier)

Eierman 3x (5-4-3-TBD)

Lee (5-5-TBD-TBD)

 

that’s a pretty good list IMO.  Obviously a lot can happen over his next 2 seasons, but now that he’s halfway to 4, I think you can probably start putting him in the conversation assuming he does actually get 4 titles.

 

And you can add

Eireman 3rd on senior level USA team.  McKenna #2 on that team. 

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23 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Yianni has some impressive wins but Heil was the only champ he’s beat and he had a bunch of losses that year. 

Well the past 2 years they weren’t champs because Yianni was there.  Heil won it in both 2016 and 2017.  In 2016, McKenna lost to Meredith and Meredith lost to Heil. 

But I kinda get your point, although how many other champs do people typically beat especially if you don’t change weights?   Taking a quick look, for example I don’t think Nolf beat any champs other than IMAR and of course IMAR also best him multiple times including at NCAA’s.  I wonder  if Gross will go up to 141 next year if his extra year is approved.

Edited by 1032004

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On 3/30/2019 at 11:44 AM, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Yianni has some impressive wins but Heil was the only champ he’s beat and he had a bunch of losses that year. 

I know freestyle “doesn’t count” but I guess you can add Molinaro, Oliver and Zain to this list with their 6 NCAA titles.

Edited by 1032004

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On 3/31/2019 at 9:47 AM, 1032004 said:

Well the past 2 years they weren’t champs because Yianni was there.  Heil won it in both 2016 and 2017.  In 2016, McKenna lost to Meredith and Meredith lost to Heil. 

But I kinda get your point, although how many other champs do people typically beat especially if you don’t change weights?   Taking a quick look, for example I don’t think Nolf beat any champs other than IMAR and of course IMAR also best him multiple times including at NCAA’s.  I wonder  if Gross will go up to 141 next year if his extra year is approved.

That's the thing, if you win the title at your weight every year by default the number of other NCAA champs at that weight will be zero, unless a bunch of people are shuffling weights.  How many NCAA champs has cenzo beat other than IMAR?  How about Hall? How about Nickal?  Nolf?  Zain? Kyle Snyder?  Ed ruth? Gabe Dean? David Taylor?  I'd have to look at the stats but I'd be surprised if many of those guys had 3 or more wins over people that were already champs at the time they wrestled.  I think for most of them its going to be 1-2, and most of those guys upset dominant returning champs as part of establishing themselves (steiber, Dean, Ruth, Imar, Gwiz, etc).

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That's the thing, if you win the title at your weight every year by default the number of other NCAA champs at that weight will be zero, unless a bunch of people are shuffling weights.  How many NCAA champs has cenzo beat other than IMAR?  How about Hall? How about Nickal?  Nolf?  Zain? Kyle Snyder?  Ed ruth? Gabe Dean? David Taylor?  I'd have to look at the stats but I'd be surprised if many of those guys had 3 or more wins over people that were already champs at the time they wrestled.  I think for most of them its going to be 1-2, and most of those guys upset dominant returning champs as part of establishing themselves (steiber, Dean, Ruth, Imar, Gwiz, etc).
Snyder beat 3 timer Cox and 3 timer Gwiz. That's pretty good for a guy who wrestled folkstyle part time.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, cjc007 said:

Snyder beat 3 timer Cox and 3 timer Gwiz. That's pretty good for a guy who wrestled folkstyle part time.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

But part of the reason that happened is because he changed weights.   As mentioned Yianni did beat 2xer Heil, it’s not his fault that Heil had a down year (for him) mainly because they instituted a new rule directly because of him.

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18 hours ago, cjc007 said:

Snyder beat 3 timer Cox and 3 timer Gwiz. That's pretty good for a guy who wrestled folkstyle part time.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

Unless Yianni wins a world gold this year(while he's 19) and knocks off some of the World's best, Snyder is the best ever at this point of his career.  However, the title of the post is different than what NJdan says in his first post.  After 2 years of college, Yianni obviously has to be considered top couple when it comes to record at this point. I think to argue dominance is not relevant in his question.  Purely college record, yes he is one of the all time best.

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3 hours ago, pennsyrules said:

Unless Yianni wins a world gold this year(while he's 19) and knocks off some of the World's best, Snyder is the best ever at this point of his career.  However, the title of the post is different than what NJdan says in his first post.  After 2 years of college, Yianni obviously has to be considered top couple when it comes to record at this point. I think to argue dominance is not relevant in his question.  Purely college record, yes he is one of the all time best.

That ship has sailed:  Yianni turned 20 before NCAAs this year.

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On 3/30/2019 at 8:24 PM, RJChicago said:

Yianni is awesome but I don't think he has as many great wins in his first two years as a number of the others have had. And his loss is not nearly as "good" a loss as, say, Nolf's losses to IMar. 

There's no such thing as a good loss, I don't care if you lose 1-0 to Dake in 3 OTs.

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